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Air Accident / Incident thread

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    According to comments on AVH, the left reverser would have been inoperative but not the right, it's not clear whether they used reverse thrust on the right but they may have.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Posts: 0 Enoch Stocky Limb


    That happened an aircraft recently as it departed the runway after landing and seemed to strike something about the height of the wings. Very neat separation of the unit holding both low wings together beneath the fuselage, forget the aircraft type but it was a smallish twinjet. On Twitter not not ago, no injuries or fire. In fact I commented wryly at the cool design. Will try and dig it up.

    Edit -as above, a Learjet.



  • Posts: 0 Enoch Stocky Limb


    I watched the DHL 757 video many times. It comes to mind how cleanly the tail one section came away at assembly point at apparently quite low kinetic forces, although hard to see what finally happened. In my mind it poses a question as to the integrity of the join, and had that anything to do with the initial cause of the hydraulic failure. It’s the biggest clue standing out.



  • Posts: 0 Enoch Stocky Limb


    This accident is very hard to watch so don’t click it without this consideration. Very sad all-fatal accident concerning a Piper Navajo Chieftain air ambulance in Ecuador heading towards the modern metropolis of Guayaquil (>>>beautiful airport terminal incidentally, a lot of money put into the airport and city infrastructure which is kind of trying to be the Singapore of South America<<<) which is located in a low tropical region. At least one fuel starved engine started backfiring in relative silence, the aircraft seemed to slow and loose height then right wing dropped and it spun into the ground with engine(s) back roaring.

    Likely a needless accident, but I read elsewhere that this aircraft has particularly tricky single engine performance and very decisive fast action needs to be taken to keep it flying. It seems the pilots only started to act during the resultant spin and it would have needed a good many hundred/thousand extra feet to hope to recover. The aircraft may or may not have been at its weight limit, although only 6 were aboard, but it may have been carrying lines of a medical ventilator, oxygen tanks etc.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Most of the Piper twins of that era were very sensitive at low speeds, and required very positive and almost agressive handling in the event of an engine failure at low speed, the smallest of them, the PA30/39 had to be kept at a speed considerably above the landing speed until it was possible to guarantee landing without power, to cover the situation of an engine failure at low level, and being able to keep positive directional control.

    The same situation applied on take off, it would unstick (the gear shape meant it was going to come off automatically) at around 65 Kts on the ASI, and for the same reason, it was a case of lower the nose, fly level in ground effect and accelerate to 91 indicated before climbing away and retracting the gear, the reason being that if an engine failed below 91 Kts, it was not possible to maintain directional control and climb away safely.

    The Seneca and Navajo family were not as critical, but still required a very quick and positive response to avoid the sort of problem that was seen in the accident report above.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 841 ✭✭✭LiamaDelta



    https://avherald.com/h?article=4f73f634&opt=0

    Interesting, very close-call here. Unable to gain altitude after going around. Passed over houses at just 300ft. Only 102 passengers on board so could have been significantly more serious if it was a full flight.

    TAP Air Portugal Airbus A320-200, registration CS-TNV performing flight TP-754 from Lisbon (Portugal) to Copenhagen (Denmark) with 102 passengers and 7 crew, was landing on Copenhagen's runway 30 at about 12:05L (10:05Z), when according to ADS-B data transmitted by the aircraft the aircraft veered to the left, the speed over ground reduced sharply from about 133 to about 120 knots, the crew initiated a go around, the aircraft however did not climb but also did not build up speed. With the airport perimeter and houses of the Maglebylille community in the way the aircraft began to slowly climb and crossed the first houses at around 300 feet AGL, the speed over ground further reduced to 101 knots. Once the aircraft had climbed to about 900 feet AGL (1700 feet MSL according to standard pressure 1013 hPa, deduct 800 feet from all transponder altitude readings to get to AGL according to QNH 986 hPa) airspeed began to build up again. The aircraft levelled off at 3000 feet MSL and thereafter accelerated to normal speeds. The aircraft subsequently positioned for another approach to runway 22L and landed without further incident about 20 minutes after the go around.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Interesting? Bloody terrifying :-)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,574 ✭✭✭cml387


    Very sad case in this month's monthly bulletin from the AAIB UK.

    Extract from report:

    At 0958 hrs on 10 September 2021, without permission from the operator or clearance from the air traffic radio operator, a student pilot took off from Rochester Airport in G-CFIO. The aircraft was later observed to enter a steep descent to the left before it struck the ground in a field adjacent to Tar Pot Lane near Ruckinge in Kent. The pilot did not survive the accident. Immediately prior to taking off, the pilot had reported over the aircraft radio that he had been diagnosed with a terminal illness and indicated that he intended to deliberately crash the aircraft. The pilot had not declared his diagnosis to the doctor who issued his aviation medical certificate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Dilbert75


    That's horrendous. Tragic for a young person to get a terminal diagnosis but my sympathy is reserved for the poor emergency service personnel dealing with the aftermath.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    FAA determined it was intentional and revoked his licence. Shame that's all that happened. He can even reapply in a year.


    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/apr/26/youtuber-deliberately-crashed-plane-for-views-faa



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,484 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The deceased was 64, a bit more surprising of an age to do such a thing - younger would have made more sense (not that any of it made sense).

    He apparently offered his bank details to pay for "damage" so presumably wasn't poor, retired college professor. Dignitas has a lot more, well, dignity to it and doesn't impinge on others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    his propeller stopped working

    🙄

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    A US family tried to bring an genuine unexploded bombshell onto a plane at Ben Gurion. They found it on the ground in the Golan Heights and wanted to bring it home as a souvenir. Caused a bit of a panic at check-in. Not the best minds at work here.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/29/panic-at-israeli-airport-as-us-family-packs-unexploded-bombshell-for-flight-home



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    The AAIU final report into the fatal crash of Bristell NG5 ‘Speedwing' G-OJCS in June 2019 has been released.

    The link to the report is http://www.aaiu.ie/node/1625

    It's a long report, over 130 pages, some of it very hard reading, and they made a significant number of safety recommendations after their investigation that require action by the manufacturer and the regulators in the country of manufacture.

    There are 10 safety recommendations, some very critical both in terms of severity and in terms of significance, and they raise doubts about the certification and fundamental operation of this variant of the aircraft, as well as highlighting significant and dangerous errors in the manuals provided with the aircraft.

    They also raise serious douts about the safety and validity of operating the aircraft without a ballistic recovery parachute, which is regarded as an optional extra, and it seems that there are some dangerous issues around the stall and recovery from the stall, and in this specific model variant, with no criticism of the occupants of the aircraft, who were not operating in a manner that was outside of the approved manouvers, during stall training, the aircraft departed from controlled flight in manner that resulted in a flat spin, which the pilot notes state "may not be recoverable", and to make matters worse, the C of G of the aircraft was outside of the rearmost limit, and it seems that something as insignificant as the thickness of the seat cushions was a contributory factor.

    Errors in the Pilot operating handbook meant that the crew believed that they were operating within the approved C of G limits, but due to those errors, the C of G was outside of the rearmost limit, which is noted as being a serious issue when attempting to recover the aircraft from a stall.

    One of the pilots was very well known in the aviation world, and was a long term personal friend, and his death came as a huge shock to me and many other people. I can only hope that the depth of the AAIU report will serve to ensure that no one else dies in this aircraft type as a result of the issues that brought this aircraft down.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    @Irish Steve, I knew him, too. Old colleague and friend and an excellent and thorough pilot and instructor. Glad to see that the AAIU shook the tree thoroughly on this one. Might wake a few people up. RIP JP.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Indeed, the frightening thing on reading the final report is that there are some very clear regulatory shortcomings that were a significant contributor to this accident, and I'd have to be more than concerned that given the clearly stated issues there has been no move to make the ballistic recovery parachute a mandatory requirement.

    There were some very strong comments from some of the test flying that suggested that there are some issues around the size and effectiveness of the flight controls, depending on the exact configuration of the wing size, and sizing of the flight controls.

    That's not something I expect to read about an aircraft that's been certified, given some of the other caveats that were already in place in the POH. if we were looking at an old design, then maybe the issues might have been acceptable, but this is a recent design. Hopefully, the manufacturers and regulators will respond appropriately to the report. We can but hope.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Lustrum


    A bit of a crazy one here!


    https://avherald.com/h?article=4fa8c6e9&opt=0

    Its hard to figure out exactly what happened, but it certainly seems the controller has something to answer to aswell as the Italians



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Eurocopter involved in maintenance on a French lighthouse had a close call. Just about recovered in time and activated the emergency floatation devices.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    😯 That's a "whole life flashing before your eyes" moment if ever there was one

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭JohnC.



    Cessna Citation 551 flying from Jerez Airport to Cologne Bonn Airport crashed in the Baltic. ATC contact was lost over France and it appears to have continued on autopilot until it apparently ran out of fuel and spiralled into the Baltic. 4 on board, family of 3 and pilot. Military jets from Germany, Denmark and Sweden also tried to make contact, but apparently didn't see any movement inside. There's reports that a problem with pressurisation was reported shortly after takeoff. Looks like they didn't properly address that, with tragic consequences.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,574 ✭✭✭cml387


    It sounds like a carbon copy of the Payne Stewart crash



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    This may be worth watching tomorrow evening. Just hope they don't go down the oft-favoured missile theory route.

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/news/families-of-those-lost-in-1968-tuskar-rock-air-tragedy-off-wexford-coast-speak-out-in-rte-1-documentary-42045661.html



  • Posts: 0 Enoch Stocky Limb


    My old flying instructor Capt Darby Kennedy insisted it was an elevator trim tab runaway issue on the Viscount. He claimed had a certain vulnerability if parked in such a way that the tab was allowed flutter away in the wind, and not inspected properly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    The fate of this Viscount (much later than the Aer Lingus crash) has echoes of the Irish accident.

    http://www.vickersviscount.net/Index/VickersViscount353History.aspx

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Did anyone watch it? Just a rehash of the usual wild speculation?

    I read the official report produced about 20 years ago, there is just no evidence whatsoever for the missile theory. Significant questions about the maintenance records of that aircraft, and evidence from the flight path that they had serious control difficulties for quite some time. It all fits in with the elevator problem being the most likely cause.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    Nothing new in the programme (which is available to watch on RTE Player) and its focus was mostly on the personal stories of families affected. That was the most impactful aspect, I thought, and not sensationalist. The search and wreckage recovery was not well handled, according to the programme. They included a couple of amateur "experts" who remain convinced that an unmanned Jindivik drone was responsible, but they had no real evidence to support this.

    Fundamentally, an air crash investigation in an era of no CVRs or data recorders, and with only limited recovery of the wreckage from deep water, was never likely to enable any definitive conclusions to be reached and to that extent the families will always have unanswered questions. The fact that so few bodies (14 (?) out of 61) were recovered also understandably frustrates people, especially since the wreckage was believed to contain more but it could not be recovered successfully.

    Post edited by EchoIndia on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,574 ✭✭✭cml387


    I gave up when I heard the self proclaimed experts talking about the mythical second aircraft.

    I bet there was no mention (as indeed there was no mention in the original accident report) that the maintenance records for EI-AOM were missing when sought by the accident investigators.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭EchoIndia




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    RTE really love misery don't they.

    What's the point of dragging all this up again when there is nothing new to be learned, there was as comprehensive as was then possible (given the time passed and lack of physical evidence) report done on the 30th anniversary, over 20 years ago now.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,574 ✭✭✭cml387


    I agree. There was no point other than to get people to emote on TV. It's not even an anniversary.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,462 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    We're in a Air Accident thread here, I'd say a majority of the population had never heard of the incident



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Aer Lingus had other fatal crashes in the 1960s but they don't get discussed on TV.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    The only other one was the 1967 Viscount training crash and that was a non-revenue flight.

    https://aviation-safety.net/database/operator/airline.php?var=6884



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I was thinking of one in Wales as well but that was the 1950s.

    1952 so I was way off


    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    2 WWII planes collided at an airshow in Dallas. B-17 and P-63. The P-63 cut the B-17 in half and both went down. They were very close to the ground when it happened so there was no chance for anyone. Officials aren't saying much yet, but there's probably no survivors and probably 5-6 people between the two planes. At least they didn't go down in a crowd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,372 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    This is an unique one.

    Accident: MEA A320 at Beirut on Nov 10th 2022, object penetrates cabin

    By Simon Hradecky, created Thursday, Nov 10th 2022 17:37Z, last updated Thursday, Nov 10th 2022 19:21Z


    A MEA Middle East Airlines Airbus A320-200, registration OD-MRM performing flight ME-311 from Amman (Jordan) to Beirut (Lebanon), departed Amman's runway 26R, climbed to FL280 and landed on Beirut's runway 16 about 40 minutes later. In flight the fuselage crown was penetrated by an object, believed to be a bullet, upon landing in Beirut.


    The airline reported a stray bullet struck the aircraft as it was landing in Beirut. Celebratory gunshots hit about 7-8 stationary aircraft at Beirut Airport per year, this was the first time a moving aircraft was hit.


    ===== I can’t insert or link AVHERALD, so you have to find it there for the photos.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    F35 vertical landing goes weirdly wrong. Pilot eventually ejects, though maybe he didn't need to in the end. But he should at least get a Martin Baker tie out of it.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭Psychlops




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet: https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/1224/1343617-new-york-dublin-aer-lingus-engine/

    An engine failure during the opening stages of flight is a pretty big deal.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭PukkaStukka


    A bigger deal unfortunately for the PAX & crew who are stranded out there, and likely will be for Christmas. Hopefully they'll get a rescue aircraft to them ASAP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Noxegon


    Unfortunately they are indeed stuck out there for Christmas.

    EI might just about have gotten a plane back in before the DUB closure on 25th if they'd dispatched it first thing this morning, but at this point it's not going to be a runner until the 26th.

    I develop Superior Solitaire when I'm not procrastinating on boards.ie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 934 ✭✭✭d51984


    I got sent a watsap of the Aer Lingus A330 flying overhead with flames coming from one of its engines.


    Edit: Ive emailed video to myself, is there anyway of sharing it here folks?

    Its a disgrace Joe!



  • Registered Users Posts: 934 ✭✭✭d51984


    Its a disgrace Joe!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,721 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Is that real, I've a very strong skepticism to most video's that appear on the internet these days. Especially ones that are so badly filmed its hard to work out are they genuine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Noxegon


    Dublin Airport apparently offered to facilitate a recovery flight landing on Christmas morning.

    I develop Superior Solitaire when I'm not procrastinating on boards.ie.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭crushproof


    There's another video from CCTV of a number of flashes coming from the plane as well. Interesting to see what happened, definately would not have fancied having a window seat and seeing that happen!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 898 ✭✭✭HTCOne


    From the ATC Audio the crew say they had both engines running normally and they had received no abnormal warnings when queried as they were being vectored for the ILS so not an engine failure per se. Read elsewhere ground engineer's found nothing untoward when they checked it after landing but would imagine it requires a drop and boroscope before being allowed back on wing.


    Very unfortunate timing for all involved.



  • Posts: 0 Enoch Stocky Limb


    Re the Robinson 44 Raven fatal crash in Kildare, preliminary report out. Aircraft noted to be attempting to land, then ascended rapidly into bank of fog and fell to ground in a nose down dive. Weather conditions noted to be conducive to freezing fog.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,920 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
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