Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

tibruit · 13-10-2022 12:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737639#Comment_119737639

"there`s nothing of substance linking him to the murder"

Isn`t a confession something of substance. How about multiple confessions? We have a known to be violent man, who had been drinking whiskey (according to Jules he became a different person when he drank spirits), who expressed a desire to go up that laneway at 1 am to his partner.

Shortly afterwards he got out of bed, left the house and nobody saw him again for several hours. He had a scratch on his forehead next morning that wasn`t there the night before, scratches all over his hands and lower arms that nobody saw in the pub the night before.

He bought bleach two days later, lit a bonfire over the Christmas period and burned clothes, footwear and a mattress. Jules is on the record as saying he was a hoarder who never got rid of anything. It`s clear he had a desire to get rid of something that Christmas.

At least you`ve moved on from "no evidence" to "no evidence of substance". Small steps.

tibruit · 13-10-2022 12:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737769#Comment_119737769

"

"What I`ve always wondered is why the Guards have focused on Bailey and tried to frame it on him instead of other suspects"

Read my previous post. Then maybe go read a book or two on the subject.

tinytobe · 13-10-2022 12:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738655#Comment_119738655

Books don't really answer my questions. I think, I've asked them often enough.

I still don't know why Bailey's motive is always supposed to be of a sexual nature? No book ever answers that.

Gussie Scrotch · 13-10-2022 12:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738636#Comment_119738636

I have not changed my assessment of the case . Although I am perfectly willing to do so if anything new emerges that links Bailey to the crime.

Let me clarify: Non of the evidence presented in the Garda case against Ian Bailey is substantive.

Nothing links him to Sophie.

Nothing links him to the crime scene.

Nothing links him to the attack.

He had no motive to kill Sophie.

The flimsey, contrived and discredited "circumstantial" evidence against him was comprehensively demolished by the DPP.

https://syndicatedanarchy.wordpress.com/

In the words of Eamon Barnes (Director of Public Prosecutions ) "the Garda investigation was thoroughly flawed and prejudiced" and culminated in a grossly improper attempt to achieve or even force a prosecutorial decision which accorded with that prejudice".

This says it all.

13-10-2022 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738636#Comment_119738636

and his psychic abilities of investigating the murder before he know it happended

tibruit · 13-10-2022 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738773#Comment_119738773

I would take Barnes a bit more seriously if he had addressed all of the witness testimony that was presented to him and had not just cherry picked his way through bits of it and accepted the words of two individuals who we know for certain lied on their questionnaires and lied initially when under interrogation. It also became obvious in the later court cases that Barnes`s interpretation of witness statements was seriously flawed. There`s nothing like getting them into court before judge and under oath, to see whether people are telling the truth or not.

tibruit · 13-10-2022 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738768#Comment_119738768

"Books don`t really answer my questions"

How do you know? You haven`t read any. The fact is you turned up on these threads last year asking questions that were so basic, it was obvious that you knew almost nothing about this case. Ever since then you have spammed the threads with a conveyor belt of nonsense and now a year later you admit you haven`t even read a book about the case.

tibruit · 13-10-2022 1:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738937#Comment_119738937

And at least two of those witnesses that said Jules and Bailey knew about the murder at least an hour before he was actually told about it for the first time, have since then appeared before a judge and stood by what they said in their initial statements.

tinytobe · 13-10-2022 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738773#Comment_119738773

I see this very much the same way.

Bailey also doesn't even need to explain where and how he's got scratches on the head or hands. No fancy stories about killing a turkey or chopping down trees, nothing. Maybe a fight with Jules, it doesn't matter as it doesn't prove murder.

As his DNA was never located at the scene of the crime ( police incompetence or collusion or mess- up or otherwise, doesn't matter) Bailey doesn't even need to give an explanation. And he volunteered his DNA early enough. Whether he took a gamble on this on the off chance, or not, is a different subject, but circumstantial at the most if at all.

Fact is, to date he can't be linked to the scene of the crime.

Also, there are loads of people not having a solid alibi for that night.

tibruit · 13-10-2022 2:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738773#Comment_119738773

"None of the evidence presented in the Garda case against Ian Bailey is substantive."

Of course it is!

"Nothing links him to Sophie."

Off the top of my head I can think of six people that linked him directly to Sophie. There`s actually more than that.

"Nothing links him to the crime scene"

He expressed a desire to go to the crime scene that night and told a number of witnesses afterwards that he was at the crime scene that night. You`re like tinytobe. You acknowledge that you haven`t read Jules`s signed statement and then you come on here pontificating without the basic facts. Go read her statement. The critical bits are in Foster`s book.

"Nothing links him to the attack"

See above.

"He had no motive to kill Sophie"

You`ve said something definitively there and you simply don`t know whether he had or he hadn`t.

tinytobe · 13-10-2022 3:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739343#Comment_119739343

So, it's about Foster's book, then. OK, I can see where the conversation is going.

...buy the book, boost sales.....new revelations are in the book.....

13-10-2022 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739343#Comment_119739343

No motive is a regular song here. No one knows if he had a motive or not or what it might have been.

Gussie Scrotch · 13-10-2022 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738993#Comment_119738993

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739343#Comment_119739343

1) Eamon Barnes and his staff were the best qualified people in the country to assess the evidence presented by the Gardai. Bar none.

No person, or group of people were remotely as professional, as credible or a thorough. To dismiss their observations and conclusions as "not to be taken seriously" is tantamount to burying one's head in the sand. As professionals in the field they concluded that the evidence presented amounted to nothing other than gossip, innuendo, misrepresentation and manipulation of the facts. Their report is thorough, logical and convincing and has stood the test of time.

Furthermore they were scathing in their criticism of the investigation.

2) Nothing links him to Sophie. No association whatsoever. No record of them being seen together, no record of any communication between them, not even a hint of local gossip. A casual introduction does not constitute an association.

Nothing links him to the crime scene. Nobody saw him there, there was no forensic eveience at the scene linked to Bailey, and no forensics linked to the scene found on Bailey's person, his car, his coat etc etc.

3) Semantics. Unless you invent a motive for Bailey, he did not have one. Unlike Daniel, for example, who stood to benefit in a number of ways. Or Alfie, who had an ongoing dispute with the victim. Or Bruno, who was rejected by her and had previously attacked her.

So no, he had no motive. There are, of course, those who advance the theory that the motive was sexuial. But there was no sign of sexual activity on Sophie, her house or indeed, her bed. No does bailey have any record of sexual violence, either before this even or afterwards.

So no, taking an objective view no evidence.

If, however, you take the subjective view, ie. taking your starting point as " Bailey did it" then, of course, every trivial factor can be manipulated to reinforce your pre concieved belief. eg. utter dross like his weak attempts at black humour being classed as confessions , whether or not Marie Farrell was accurate in her assessment of a man's height, who drove the car home from the pub etc.etc etc.

It is always dangerous to go deeper and deepr down the rabbit holes of minute detail whilst losing the overview. One can't see the wood for the trees.

As Eamon Barnes stated, "senior Gardai engaged in a persistent and grossly improper attempt to force a prosecution."

13-10-2022 3:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739645#Comment_119739645

you still think jules was driving so you could do with some new revelations

tinytobe · 13-10-2022 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739680#Comment_119739680

I will not buy this book by Foster, nor would I suggest anybody should by this book. It was just written by somebody jumping on the train and wanting to make money.

Also, who was driving the car, or was driving under influence of whatever, doesn't prove murder as well. Maybe Bailey drove under the influence, without any accidents, nor arousing suspicion, - it doesn't matter. The car was checked, no blood, nothing, thus it's hard to believe the car was used to get to the crime or leaving the crime.

13-10-2022 3:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739792#Comment_119739792

it matters because it show how little you know about it. there are several books not just fosters

tinytobe · 13-10-2022 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739830#Comment_119739830

I do know what matters, I think. However I don't know it all, - also I don't have access to all the information and I'd hardly say they are in a book.

To date we don't have a motive, only speculation of possible motives.

To date we don't have an accused to be linked to the scene of the crime with solid evidence, DNA, fingerprints, fiber from clothes, etc.

To date we have no conviction in Ireland beyond reasonable doubt, the ones at least we would be used to.

It only shows how little we all know about the crime, authors of books included.

Sadly, the only real solid certainty we do actually have is the police corruption and collusion and the coercion of witnesses.

In this case, it's probably easier to prosecute the police than the murderer.

13-10-2022 4:49pm

'only shows how little we all know about the crime, authors of books included.,"

No it doesn't. You have made no attempt to research and keep repeating the same old nonsense.

jimwallace197 · 13-10-2022 5:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740084#Comment_119740084

Says you, what credible books are you looking up that clearly show Bailey was guilty. Fosters?? dont make me laugh.

Truth of the matter is, is that there is zero DNA evidence linking him to the crime, there's no credible sightings of him in the vicinity of the crime, theres little to no motive, no credible evidence of him of disposing of evidence, etc.

All you have is a couple of dodgy witnesses who claimed they saw him with her, introduced them, witnessed him sarcastically boasting about the murder, a couple of scratches on his arm. A load of bullshit & what really exposes the French trial as a farce.

jimwallace197 · 13-10-2022 5:35pm

This is not just about Bailey (who by all accounts seems like a weirdo). Its about due process, proper evidence, credible witnesses, etc. This is intrinsic to a modern functioning democracy, you take away due process & innocent until proven guilty, then we're not better than Stalins Russia or Hitlers Germany.

There's more at stake here than Bailey.

tinytobe · 13-10-2022 5:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740243#Comment_119740243

excellent points.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740269#Comment_119740269

also excellent points.

Except in Stalin's Russia or Hitler's Germany they would have picked you up at 3am in the morning marched you off to some secret location, "made to talk", sign some confession under duress, to be sent to some labour camp where you were worked to death, or starved, or possibly both.

Ireland isn't quite there yet, not even the Bandon Guarda station.

Fr Tod Umptious · 13-10-2022 6:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737769#Comment_119737769

Maybe the Gardai did not frame any of the people you mentioned because framing people for murder is not what they do.

They investigate and submit the outcome of their investigation to the DPP.

In this case there was overwhelming circumstancial evidence against Bailey so they submitted that to the DPP.

The DPP rejected it and thus Bailey was never tried for murder.

Deeec · 13-10-2022 7:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740084#Comment_119740084

The authors of the books are not any better informed than you or I. They have researched what is in the public domain regarding the case and drawn their own conclusions. One author has even used fictional events to make his theory believable. By all means read the books but you are a fool if you believe everything in them.

You also dont need to have read any of the books to be well informed in this case.

saabsaab · 13-10-2022 7:46pm

Sometimes to get a person to confess an amount of pressure is needed. The Gardai didn't try to frame anyone here. If you were to frame anyone it could be done in a way that would be a dead cert.

Rows Grower · 13-10-2022 8:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740269#Comment_119740269

Sorry now Jim, but how did you imagine there are comparisons between our nation in the late 90’s and Stalins Russia or Hitlers Germany?

Our nation has a functioning democracy, we are a proud republic despite 800+ years of oppression.

Ian Bailey would have known perfectly well from his journalistic experiences that the 28 hour delay in a pathologist arriving at the scene of a murder in 1996 (that he had attended before the pathologist arrived) could not have incriminated him.

You mention due process, proper evidence, credible witnesses as if you know what you are talking about. You obviously are away with the birds man. Ireland is now ahead of the game when it comes to these principles and the protection of victims.

Case in point, the Gardai which you obviously hate for some reason known only to yourself have recently secured convictions and jail sentences for some of their own members that have been found guilty of coercive control.

Coercive control is an act or a pattern of acts of assault, threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim.

I’m not a weak female Jim, and a keyboard warrior or bully like you will never harm, punish or frighten me, Jim.

Never.

tibruit · 13-10-2022 8:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739674#Comment_119739674

"Eamon Barnes and his staff were the best qualified people in the country to assess the evidence presented by the Gardaí"

Were they? Who knows? The gardai themselves were best qualified to assess the evidence. They interviewed the witnesses and they had a better understanding of what was going on at ground level. The DPP`s report ignored or questioned a lot of witness testimony that has never wavered in the intervening years. In my opinion Barnes got his knickers a twist because there was so much outside pressure applied for a prosecution. His reaction was to go on tilt. Those cowboys below in west Cork weren`t going to be telling him how to run his show.

"Nothing links him to Sophie"

Except several witnesses, only two of whom mention a casual introduction.

"Nothing links him to the crime scene"

He linked himself to the crime scene in conversations he had before and after the murder.

"He had no motive"

Nor did he need one. Motive points to pre-meditation which may or may not be a factor. We do know that at the time, Bailey was a violent and angry man with a short fuse, capable of flying into rage with little or no provocation. Put such a man up that laneway on that very night that Sophie was murdered and what potentially followed is pretty much self evident. Bailey had a bee in his bonnet to go up there that night. Did you read Jules`s statement yet?

"Nor does Bailey have any record of sexual violence"

He doesn`t need to have one. There was no sex. Try to stay out of those rabbit holes.

"It is always dangerous...."

Yada, yada, yada....

"As Eamon Barnes stated "senior Gardaí engaged in a persistent and grossly improper attempt to force a prosecution"."

This is not a reference to the conduct of the investigation but to the pressure that the Gardaí were applying to Barnes. Instead of publicly criticizing them, Barnes should have been examining why they were so determined to force a prosecution. The reason is clear. The Gardaí were convinced that Bailey was a headcase who could kill again. And he nearly did. Time has not been good to Barnes.

13-10-2022 9:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740739#Comment_119740739

It's nonsense to say the author s don't know anything more than us. Foster was given the file. Writers have contacts and can go there. Did you ever go there and ask questions.? Ever interview bailey or Jules or anyone who gave evidence to have seen them investigate before they knew of the story

You're right re Sheridan and his make up story. I have death in December but would not buy his latest crap about being a hunter. His book on Kathy beirne shows the spoofer he is. Foster malocco and the indo journalist book may not be perfect but they are more than we would know

13-10-2022 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740914#Comment_119740914

Agree with all except "Ian Bailey would have known perfectly well from his journalistic experiences that the 28 hour delay in a pathologist arriving at the scene of a murder in 1996 (that he had attended before the pathologist arrived) could not have incriminated him"

Bailey could not have known there would be a delay with harbison. For all bailey knew harbison could have helicoptered in the day she was found

13-10-2022 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741116#Comment_119741116

One podcast the crime analyst i think believe s the DPP didn't prosecute because of not wanting to show up the harbison delay

tinytobe · 13-10-2022 10:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740553#Comment_119740553

Normally, I'd say they don't frame.

What am I supposed to think of coercing Marie Farrell to give false witness statements in a court of law, or giving drugs to Martin Graham to get close to Bailey and get him to talk, losing evidence, as well as the Bandon Garda station tape recordings?

It's called framing people for murder in my book.

Bailey was never convicted as at least the legal system works.

As for the Guards they went to quite some extraordinary length to try to frame Bailey. They did not succeed. They may have had more success with all the others I've mentioned.

Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

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