Govt to do 'everything' to prevent evictions - McEntee

14-10-2022 5:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744351#Comment_119744351

What carrots? What benefits or supports do you think are available to landlords that are not available to other businesses? What subsidies do you think are available? Landlords pay vat/tax on any purchases or services for a rentals, they are expenses and can be deducted from income before paying income tax or deducted over an 8 year period.

You don't need to worry about the value of rentals, if you don't have any it doesn't affect you. Those who have no interest in being a landlord are getting out now while property prices are high. Those who see rentals as a business are sticking with it rent will stay high while there is a shortage of rentals and rents will be very slow to drop in rpz due to being locked in at the lower rent. Anything the government do is not going to improve things in the short term

Yurt2 · 14-10-2022 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745016#Comment_119745016

Lets take one: For one thing, 100 percent mortgage interest relief is an extraordinary bung to buy-to-let landlords.

The interest on a BTL mortgage reflects the risk premium, and essentially the exchequer is carrying the can.

A lot of people are talking "free market" this and that. But when you see a tax treatment provision like that, one which advantages a BTL landlord in an extraordinary manner and in effect socialises the financial risk, you have to ask question what they're on about when talking of being "chased out of the market". It's béal bocht to the max.

That's just one on the list.

jmayo · 14-10-2022 5:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726276#Comment_119726276

So 3% return when you were getting what on a deposit account ?

If you invested in shares yes you could make a lot of money if you are wise enough (and possibly lucky), but you could also lose big time.

Oh and it is rare enough for property to lose 50% of it's value unless of course you don't do proper due diligence when buying i.e. buy at height of bubble in an area that has totally over inflated prices with little chance of sale or rent.

A property is an asset that fair enough could go down in value, but over the main historically have usually gone up.

So please lets not start looking for the violins.

I generally do not have a lot of time for Irish landlords as most in my experience over the years have been gouging feckers.

I believe in rent controls as unlike other services it is a prime one, a rental market can not be allowed run out of control as with like a housing market out of control it reeks havoc on the broader economy.

That doesn't mean I support tenants disregarding their side of the bargain.

And I am totally against this kind of shyte that grade A fooking idiot McEntee is proposing.

In fact idiot is too generous a description for her.

This is akin to the shyte where delinquent mortgage holders were basically allowed and supported to not pay their mortgages.

Somebody else always foots the bill.

Yurt2 · 14-10-2022 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745091#Comment_119745091

What posters here are failing to do is to draw the distinction between delinquent tenants and no-fault evictions. The latter category rising is what has set alarm bells ringing in government (due to high house prices I'd submit and I stand behind it), and deliquent tenants are in a very firm minority in the private rental sector.

When you dig down, the posters keep circling back to having the right to sell as they please to take advantage of high house prices as they please, with no regard to the social and financial cost borne by the evicted in a no-fault situation.

An eviction ban is a rather blunt instrument, but we are in an emergency situation. As evidenced in the thread, the grumble isn't actually deliquent tenants, it's about a maximalist approach to property rights with a blind eye turned to the social cost as every turn.

Yurt2 · 14-10-2022 6:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744992#Comment_119744992

There's no legal restriction on the right to sell in a moritorium situation. You're making that up.

14-10-2022 6:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745204#Comment_119745204

There is no legal restriction preventing you jumping into an active volcano but you would be crazy to do so. Selling with tenants will limit who will buy the property most likely affecting price negatively.

I see you you were only able to find one government support for landlords and it no longer exists. It appears you are quite the expert alright.

Yurt2 · 14-10-2022 6:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745346#Comment_119745346

And what government promised BTL landlords optimal selling conditions? None, that's how many.

They already underwrite almost every aspect of the "business" and rent extraction endevour. Now you want them to maximize the sales price over and above the common good?

FYI, I posted a list of 10 sweetheart reliefs and deductions for BTL landlords earlier (which isn't even exhaustive) so you can withdraw the snark.

FYI 2.0: mortgage interest relief for landlords is still in effect (and sweetened up to 100 percent in 2019). For mortgages on primary principal residences it was staged down years ago.

14-10-2022 8:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745396#Comment_119745396

What are you on about underwriting and rent extraction. It's not like the government are giving landlords pots of money to go buy property. Are you of the belief that tenants should not have to pay rent?

Are business expenses now considered sweetheart reliefs?

Like most of your comments you are wrong, mortgage interest relief has ended, give it a google. It also came with restrictions at the time and was implemented to try and get more rental properties on the market so was as beneficial to tenants as it was to landlords.

Like anybody when the government changes legislation that's costs people more there will be opposition just look at property taxes, water charges and usc.

SwimClub · 14-10-2022 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745396#Comment_119745396

Mortgae interest relief for landlords is standard in most countries as is relief on interest on company loans in general, if you borrow money to enter an enterprise interest on that loan is generally deductible against the income from that enterprise. It's hardly a sweetheart deal.

Yurt2 · 14-10-2022 8:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745729#Comment_119745729

Incorrect, your Google is malfunctioning. Mortgage interest relief for a primary principle residence was ended and staged-down, mortgage interest relief for landlords accruing interest is still in place and in fact extended in scope in 2019. It pays to know what you're talking about on this thread. (below page from Sept. 2022)

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax_credits_and_reliefs/housing_tax_credits_and_reliefs.html

Tax relief for landlords

You can deduct the interest on mortgages used to purchase, improve or repair rented residential property when working out your rental income for tax purposes.

You must show that you have registered all tenancies in the property with the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB). Interest can only be deducted during the period in which the property is let.

The amount of interest you can deduct on these mortgages has increased in recent years:

Before 2017, it was 75% of the interest
In 2017, it was 80% of the interest
In 2018, it was 85% of the interest
From January 2019, it is 100% of the interest

Interest is treated as accruing on a daily basis and the date the loan was taken out is not relevant.

SwimClub · 14-10-2022 8:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745204#Comment_119745204

A mate of mine is moving back to Dublin and just offered to buy my rental gaff at 5% over what I think it's worth, can I sell it to him?

Yurt2 · 14-10-2022 8:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745805#Comment_119745805

Not in the UK, in Germany it's a maximum of 45%, Netherlands no, Finland 30%.

100% is very much sweetheart territory.

Yurt2 · 14-10-2022 8:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745835#Comment_119745835

Of course you can sell it to him. Knock yourself out. There is no legal restriction on the sale of property and none proposed, not by me, and not by the government.

SwimClub · 14-10-2022 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745835#Comment_119745835

According to the lease I have with the current tenants and the law I can give 6 months notice, so if my property rights are unaffected I can sell my property to him right and he'll be moved in mid April?

SwimClub · 14-10-2022 8:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745852#Comment_119745852

Well revenue can console themselves with 50% income tax on the rest of the rental income plus CGT on any capital gains.

The biggest money makers from the rental market (with zero investment or risk) are the government.

Yurt2 · 14-10-2022 8:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745901#Comment_119745901

You asked could you sell. Of course you are and you know you are. What he does with tenants in situ is mediated by tenancy law, which can be changed by the government. And as you're aware there is a rental moritorium proposal on the table.

Essentially, you're asking everybody to give a sh*t about the resale value of your property as it pertains to tenancy law. Sorry not sorry, but I don't particularly care about the resale value of your property really. And as a public policy priority in the current housing emergency, it appears it is secondary concern for the government as well.

Like I said earlier, this isn't the Republic of Landlords.

Yurt2 · 14-10-2022 8:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745918#Comment_119745918

God help the poor landlord, passive income given tax treatment just like any other business owner (who has to work a lot harder for their buck).

Really, apart from the already generous tax treatment, it appears you're on a crib for lower taxes on passive income and capital gains on property which a chimp could realise if they had property rights.

We're getting close to the nub of the problem, quite a lot of people in the landlord game just want a printing press.

The government really can't go much further for landlords, it's a pro-landlord regime and has always traditionally been so. They've enjoyed a decade of house price inflation to recently Celtic Tiger levels, and record rental inflation, and it's still not enough. The crib apparently will never end.

SwimClub · 14-10-2022 8:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745926#Comment_119745926

He is not going to buy with tenants in situe because he needs to live there. So I guess I can't sell to him.

Yurt2 · 14-10-2022 8:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745972#Comment_119745972

Up to him, there's zero restraining the sale, moritorium or no moritorium. Maybe you could sweeten the deal and slash the asking price.

SwimClub · 14-10-2022 9:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745985#Comment_119745985

After all of this discussion, I think I might just issue the notice to vacate, whenever that is possible, and go the Air B&B route another poster recommended once current tenants move out.

Yurt2 · 14-10-2022 9:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746032#Comment_119746032

If you're in an RPZ, don't forget to apply for planning for change of use, it's the law. And if you're granted it, file your taxes correctly. Apart from that, do what you want.

SwimClub · 14-10-2022 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746050#Comment_119746050

Thanks for the permission, lol

Yurt2 · 14-10-2022 9:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746053#Comment_119746053

It's not my permission you'll be cribbing out about next. It'll be the local authority's. Bear in mind you must offer the property back to the tenants at the same rate when you're planning permission is refused and you put it back on the rental market. Also the law.

SwimClub · 14-10-2022 9:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746096#Comment_119746096

OK, well I have a contact in HR always looking for places for visitors to stay and corporate lettings are exempt so there's that option.

The Spider · 14-10-2022 9:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119743526#Comment_119743526

Airbnb only way to go really, have a place rented out to great tenants, don’t expect any hassle, also bought a place in a popular spot, did Airbnb for an experiment, for a month, booked out, decided not to do it full time becauseI like the idea of having a gaff I can just call down to whenever I want to with the kids, either way the amount of enquiries about just let it out to me for x amount of months etc.

Feck that I’ll pay the property tax and leave it as is, if I let anyone in I won’t get em out and that’s just not worth it to me. Worst of it is, is that if I knew I could get it back no problem I’d rent it out for six odd months or whatever, but with all this shotw going on, not a chance, even doctors etc looking for it, but nope no way I don’t trust the current situation that if I wanted it for the summer I’d never see it, and in top of that if they stopped paying rent I’d be screwed.

14-10-2022 9:27pm

Yurt2 you are coming across as a little bitter that some people made some money off an investment. People wouldn't be doing this if there wasn't money to be made and there will be less people doing it if the government continues the way its going. Its clear that you have a lot of hate for landlords but i think your anger is misdirected because its clear you have no idea what you are talking about.

You are spamming the thread with misinformation to make it look like landlords are on the pigs back. You appear to think the government have created favorable tax systems for landlords when that is clearly not the case as has been pointed out to you.

A number of posters have explained the effect the ban on evictions will have in quite simple terms, I don't think it can be broken down any simpler for you. I hope for your sake you own your own house and are not renting. Best of luck.

Yurt2 · 14-10-2022 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746168#Comment_119746168

Ah pet. I'm not bitter in the least. I have no issue with landlords earning their coin. But the buck stops when landlords think that the government should bend to their will in a housing crisis.

We have a poster here threatening to evict tenants to prove a point in the thread. Perturbed behaviour and eyebrow raising.

And yes I am a home owner. Thanks for your concern on that front I suppose.

The sweetheart tax treatment I've outlined has been proven beyond reasonable doubt. 147 break in my favour.

Yurt2 · 15-10-2022 9:29pm

Looks like the winter eviction moritorium is go. Which you can take it as the Attorney General has formed the opinion that it is constitutionally sound and would survive legal challenge.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2022/1015/1329427-evictions-ban/

Tonesjones · 15-10-2022 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749614#Comment_119749614

What if tenants just stop paying rent or are openly using the property for illicit or illegal purposes

Yurt2 · 15-10-2022 9:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749665#Comment_119749665

The wording will likely be no-fault evictions will be banned. Just as it was in the UK.

Govt to do 'everything' to prevent evictions - McEntee

Comments

Tax relief for landlords