Why is there hostility towards centrists on social media?

nullzero · 14-10-2022 10:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744590#Comment_119744590

This here is a prime example of a modern left wing opinion relating to anyone who isn't also left wing.

"too ashamed of their right leaning views", christ on a bike.

This is exactly why you can't reason with a certain cadre of people these days, whatever you say it's because you're really a Nazi.

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 15-10-2022 10:08am

The truth is that if someone laid out a list of “centrist” economic and social policies then they would be overwhelmingly more right wing than left wing. The markets should be at least partially deregulated, a reduction in the social safety net (decrying the so called “nanny state”), a distrust towards LGBT people, and so on. Centrist just don’t want to sully themselves with the “right wing” label. They’re in denial.

ancapailldorcha · 15-10-2022 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747397#Comment_119747397

What evidence is there for this alleged truth?

nullzero · 15-10-2022 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747397#Comment_119747397

More "of you're not Left wing then you're Right wing" guff.

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 15-10-2022 10:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747422#Comment_119747422

Considering that you have posted at least five times in this thread and offered your own thoughts without providing a single shred of evidence, you don’t have the right to scrutinise anyone else’s observations.

This is a discussion forum, not a peer reviewed academic paper. I’m not going to sit here and prove how centrists are right wing or water is wet to you when the truth is so patently obvious.

ancapailldorcha · 15-10-2022 10:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747454#Comment_119747454

Nothing then. As expected. Just your opinion being presented as unquestionable fact.

It's a discussion forum. People are allowed to ask questions.

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 15-10-2022 10:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747468#Comment_119747468

How would you define a centrist’s social and economic policies, then, and how do they differ from a right wing person’s? No need for evidence, just your own observations.

This goes for anyone else reading. Because I’ve noticed nobody has actually defined what a centrist believes, bar a few people laughably describing themselves as level-headed non-idealogues.

nullzero · 15-10-2022 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747486#Comment_119747486

At this point people have seen enough from you to know that 1, your opinion makes no sense and 2, you're unwilling to listen to differing opinions.

If you want to say everyone who doesn't agree with you is really Right wing all the best with that opinion, it's completely daft but you're welcome to it.

ancapailldorcha · 15-10-2022 10:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747486#Comment_119747486

With difficulty.

There isn't much of ideology, if any at all associated with centrism. This makes defining it in such terms an exercise in folly. The left includes ideologies such as communism, socialism and liberalism. The right includes conservatism, fascism and, in the UK, one-nation conservatism.

My own definition would be anyone moderate who values pragmatism and generally eschews radicalism. Dull but it is what it is. As for what differentiates a centrist from, say a socialist would the same focus on what might reasonably be possible. In the last UK general election, we had Jeremy Corbyn promising all sorts of goodies such as free broadband. He also promised another referendum on Brexit when his own following contains a strong Eurosceptic wing. None of this was realistic.

Hopefully, this answers your question if only partially.

I found this episode of the Origin Story podcast enlightening:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/centrism-stuck-in-the-middle-with-you/id1624704966?i=1000564846756

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 15-10-2022 10:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747532#Comment_119747532

Attack the post, not the poster.

Scroll up and you’ll see what political stances I have observed centrists hold. I’d like to see anyone disagree with any of that: Markets should have moderately reduced regulation, the social safety net needs to be reduced (particularly for immigrants, and also something about a nanny state), immigrants from outside the EU or the Anglosphere are not welcome, and a general distrust towards LGBT progressivism are all centrist beliefs.

They are also firmly right wing beliefs.

nullzero · 15-10-2022 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747563#Comment_119747563

It's not reasonable to expect that a criticism of a radical opinion be completely removed from being critical of the person holding that opinion.

You're making assumptions about people who are not Left wing based upon your own personal biases, this is particularly evident in the issues you raise about immigration and LGBT issues.

These have no foundation in reality and you're insisting they be taken seriously unless a link to a peer reviewed academic paper titled "the views of CGI_Livia_Soprano have no basis in reality" is posted.

We all have opinions, you seem to believe everything you think is a fact, which aside from be indicative of narcissism isn't of any real value in a discussion where people take each others opinions on board as you really have no interest in listening to anyone.

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 15-10-2022 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747605#Comment_119747605

I’m not really interested in your personal attacks or your tantrums. If you disagree with my opinions feel free to explain why. Thanks.

nullzero · 15-10-2022 11:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747618#Comment_119747618

You're making sweeping statements about what would be considered to be the majority of Irish society which have no basis in reality.

If what you were saying was correct none of the progressive changes that have been seen in Irish society in the recent past would have occurred.

In essence nothing you have said is worthy of being entertained but by all means fire ahead and tell us all how terrible we really are.

mohawk · 15-10-2022 11:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747563#Comment_119747563

Honestly, you can repeat this all you like and it doesn’t make it reality.

People in the centre are going to have a wide variety of opinions on both social and economic matters. The most common opinion is probably that the economy (capitalism) is needed to fund social safety net (socialism) and that for this to succeed there has to be a balancing act. There just isn’t an unlimited supply of money and resources to do all the things a society wants to do. There will be different opinions on priorities and that is okay. Different opinions are a good thing as it can both broaden and challenge your own opinions. The world needs people who can sit in a room listen to loads of different opinions and come to a consensus on best course of action. People on hard left and hard right are too tied up in their ideologies.

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 15-10-2022 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747698#Comment_119747698

There are indeed limited resources and yet, despite thirty odd years of centrist neoliberal policies, more and more resources are being hoovered up and being hoarded by the billionaire class. Inequality is now at an all time high. The centrist way has demonstrably failed, and yet here we are listening to them going “guys we just need to be more moderate.” That might go some way to explain centrists are hated.

TomTomTim · 15-10-2022 12:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747698#Comment_119747698

Funnily the type of black and white thinking that these types are driven by would have once been considered as an obvious lack of intelligence, yet now the biggest culprits of such thought see themselves as the wisest people in every room, the intellectuals of modern world, when in reality their thought process is primitive and backwards, yet still they call themselves "progressive".

They genuinely view the world like this:

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 15-10-2022 1:29pm

It’s very revealing that virtually no self-identified centrists have actually declared what a centrist’s core beliefs are, bar the usual useless non-opinions such as “both sides are bad,” and “we just need to meet in the middle and have a conversation.”

Centrists don’t believe in anything, and whatever they do believe is just the usual right-wing neoliberal rubbish bar, maybe, that certain soft drugs should be legalised. They are the empty vessels who make the most noise.

Luxembourgo · 15-10-2022 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747486#Comment_119747486

I don't think you can broadly define a centerist, as they take what they agree with from either side and aren't dogmatic. Tbh I think the "side" thing on politics is crazy and harmful.

Though you have made your mind up already so....

15-10-2022 1:41pm

i think its been scoped out well enough here.

internet activism requires nothing to temper it in terms of building relationships to accomplish anything nor compromise so the easy points are to the extreme end. and you never really have to listen to anyone else one you agree with yourself. and you get to be the bestest boy/girl by being the purest.

hence the stark rush towards one end or the other on any issue.

the contempt held for those that hold the middle positions (usually attached to some form of constructive reality/acknowledgement of what can be achieved from where we are at) is a function of it being a hard sell to the vapid, who havent usually patience nor the depth of comprehension required lacking as they tend to in the real world experience of actually achieving anything or holding a position for longer than it is fashionable or easy.

complicating things somewhat is the necessity to acknowledge that sometimes the correct position to hold in circumstances is stronger to the left or the right than the easy middle ground, cf new labour under starmer being an utterly pointless movement of soft toryism as their state fails, or the US dems cleaving to a form of capitalism and procedure that is suicidal to their very democracy. both instances where the available strong left energy of youth movements is very needed and welcome

anyone following the greta thunberg threads of old knows im not in any way a fan of the cheap platforming of a totem doll, but certainly the corrections required to address climate change are also significantly higher than what centrist govts seem likely to deliver.

so it not a case of always holding a centre ground but if you are always, always on the far side of any debate its probably worth looking at what you might ever have actually achieved in real life beyond the student debating club ime

15-10-2022 1:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748028#Comment_119748028

Yep, very well put.

Manach · 15-10-2022 2:06pm

Speaking as a partisan of one side, Conservative, and this likely applies to the Leftists also, is that for both camps there is a generally agreed texts and goals as well as a history that for good or ill are part of our ideologically make-up. For centralists, there is perhaps no past baggage in that the position of not choosing a side has the result of never to have made a bad choice and then having to defend it, which both the Right and Left have occassion to do.

nullzero · 15-10-2022 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747891#Comment_119747891

Yeah we should go for a far left system where the resources are hoovered up by government officials and the people get what they're given because that's much fairer.

Essentially the system we have is deeply flawed but the left has consistently failed to deliver a workable alternative and that's why they're hated.

15-10-2022 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747563#Comment_119747563

I'm probably considered a centrist and I don't believe any of this.

This must be Earth shattering for you to read.

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 15-10-2022 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748150#Comment_119748150

Thank you for admitting that centrism is right-wing. At least someone has the balls to admit it.

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 15-10-2022 2:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748178#Comment_119748178

What do you believe then? If anything.

15-10-2022 2:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748188#Comment_119748188

That's a broad question. Try to be more specific? Pick of few social issues or economics topics and I'll answer honestly.

nullzero · 15-10-2022 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748181#Comment_119748181

Where did I say that?

I was comparing the capitalist system we live in in the west to historic left wing systems like say the USSR or current regimes like communist China where the right of the individual are not respected and quality of life is demonstrably worse than in a capitalist system.

Capitalism is flawed but the left offers no workable alternative, that doesn't make capitalism a system of right wing or far right inclination it's much more centrist than anything but of course to your way of thinking that makes it right wing.