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Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,512 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I asked you why you think the vaccines were rolled out as they were.

    I don't know why you are asking me about flu. I didn't mention flu and this is the covid thread.

    Do you accept that vaccination provides significant protection against severe covid?

    You seem unwilling or unable to answer these questions on this forum for some reason, which is surprising, as this is the Covid forum.

    So how about some intellectual honesty from yourself.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91,695 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Did you miss me

    Why can we not post anything negative here, bad news here etc.,

    No matter what people tell you, words and ideas can change this World



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    It's not sticking your head in the sand at all, it's a case of take your chances and roll the dice, live your live, something will kill you in the end.

    People are getting on with it, so what if you catch the spawn of omicron?

    If you're a Vulnerable, take care of yourself, just don't go banging on Mehole's or Leo's door begging them to lock the rest of us down in order for you to feel safe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    What the mirror reported isn’t exactly true. That’s the problem, misinformation Sure we all stick our heads in the sand for all sorts of things that’s how we get on with our lives.

    Hospitalisations seemed to have stabilised, even a reduction in the last couple of days.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Jesus Christ, can we get past this pure and utter shite with people having concerns and the anti-whatever going around saying we want a lockdown please?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    Frankly, no.

    You have to keep banging on the anti-lockdown, anti-restriction, and anti-mask drums in case some bright spark gets the idea that we're all OK with being locked down again.

    There are plenty of people who still want to weld us into our houses or strap N95 masks on our faces, and I'm not OK with that, why should I keep quiet and let them have all the fun?

    Does it annoy you that I'm going against the "for us all" mantra, and that I want to live my life free of restrictions, to hell with the consequences?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,153 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    Read my post (very slowly maybe to make sure) and you'll see that's not what I said. I've dropped in and out of this thread (and the ones preceding it) for a long time, and read plenty of "bad news" stories. I didn't object to them. What I take issue with is a certain cohort of posters who exclusively post hyperbolic, OTT, misleading Covid stories - often from very questionable sources.

    Some don't like to challenge the narrative that Covid is an all-encompassing killer disease. I also know there are those who deny it's a threat at all. The reality is somewhere in the middle - deadly for some (a minority even), an inconvenience for the rest. But just because we all don't revel in the misery does not mean we "bury our heads in the sand".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,342 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I agree its somewhere in the middle but nobody here including me , or you, can tell people what to post if its valid Covid stuff as it's the main Covid thread .

    There are sxxt variants out there alright but they may never become dominant and if they do we might have enough immunity from infection / vaccines to prevent serious disease .

    The worry is of course , that they will evade that immunity and will be more severe .

    Do I think they will ? I don't know .

    Am I going to lose sleep over it ? No ..goodnight 😘



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,705 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Im sure if we obsessively tested for cold and flu every year, down to the variant, and anyone in hospital etc, it would seem like a non stop pandemic. It's time to start treating covid the same way we did any other respiratory illness in times past. Yes, sometimes there are more severe seasons etc but that's just life. For the most part, it's over. It's what I'm hearing from people I know in the medical profession anyway. I feel bad for people who are still living in fear of covid, despite being boosted etc. I know one and it's at the point where it's straining his marriage and family relations because he just wont go anywhere, hes still afraid and shames his wife for socialising. He refused to attend his own father's milestone birthday because the young people there were at school/college and therefore disease vectors. it's very sad but he won't hear sense. This is the result of the non stop fear mongering, some people won't ever be able to go back 😔



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭jackboy


    That’s just mental illness. Covid really made it obvious who was suffering from mental illness. Of course there are the few vulnerable that must protect themselves but any healthy person still taking measures is mentally ill. We still have people spraying their desks with IPA each morning at work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    Poor auld Fergal is chomping at the bit for restrictions to make a welcome return.... 🙄



  • Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Exactly. Here's an outbreak of OC43 - a coronavirus that has been with us over a hundred years - that was as deadly as COVID in a care home in 2003 and the only reason we know about it is because they thought it was the original SARS so they PCR tested the staff and residents.

    EDIT: Peptide spot assay rather than PCR, and attached pdf as link is blocked



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,502 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Cold and flu don't risk collapsing the health system (well, flu is arguable) to the levels that COVID was pre-vaccination.

    If they did, we'd be testing for them, isolating and locking down (or living in a world where we don't treat sick people in hospitals or have a much much larger health system, we'd adapt but freedoms would suffer).

    We'll likely have a lot more cold and flu this winter because they've had a chance to spread freely again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    Collapsing the health system? That can’t happen because after telling us over and over again to flatten the curve the government has put measures in place to ensure it can’t happen. Haven’t they?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    Best thing I find for colds and flus are suggested herbal drinks, comfort, rest and organic chicken noodle soup.

    I know elderly and vulnerable people who are well able to take care of themselves. They don't need to go to the doctor or hospital.



  • Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Am I hearing things right... 13 in ICU in the whole country and the usual suspects are already starting with the masks/restrictions nonsense.

    If we accept this rubbish this year it will be happening every winter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,342 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Ahh I see the " its just a flu, bro" posts are back again!

    Not even going to try to respond to that bs.

    This thread has become truly circular.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    It's just another illness that's endemic now like the flu, we just need to suck it up and get on with it restriction free, bro.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,342 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    .. .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,153 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    Again, nobody is saying that.

    People are comparing it to the flu in how we deal with it, treat it, live with it. Do you disagree with that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭WealthyB


    This is complete lies. The Irish Council of Civil Liberties declared the use of Vaccine passports to be coercive. Unvaccinated people were refused entry to gyms, restaurants and cinemas. Prominent media personalities called for unvacinnated people to be excluded from society on our national broadcaster, using frankly dangerous othering language, and were let go unchallenged.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,512 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There was no coercion. Look up the legal definition of coercion.

    Weasel words like 'coercive' from some random opinion piece at the ICCL is not the same as coercion.

    Nobody in Ireland was coerced into getting the vaccine. Stopping someone from going to the pub is not coercion.

    So I entirely reject your unfounded accusation of lies.

    Before you accuse me of lying again. Get your facts straight. Ask the ICCL for a legal opinion on whether the vaccine mandate met the definition of coercion in law, or vaccination by coercion.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,502 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Nope, if another virus like COVID came along, then it would likely be lockdown again.

    Unless you want countries to overstaff the health system permanently by about ~50% in case there's another pandemic.

    They would likely be more prepared for it and be faster at Nightingale style hospital setup, but that's about it, a new novel virus would require different treatment types rendering a lot of the treatment stockpiling (e.g. ventilators) worthless for it (PPE would find its use again, though given how often pandemics occur, it would likely be moth eaten and useless by the time the next one hits, medical technology may also have advanced enough to control it better earlier).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    Our health service has **** the bed every single winter since I can remember. Every. Single. Year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭Doc07


    ‘we wouldn't allow children into cinemas with their friends if they weren't vaccinated...’

    Are you going to commit to this inane statement? When or where did this happen?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,512 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    We weren't the only country that locked down, or had restrictions. Germany, France, Canada, Netherlands, Spain ... they don't have our health service, yet covid was such a threat to their health services they also took extreme measures to combat it.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 183 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    "coercion, threat or use of punitive measures against states, groups, or individuals in order to force them to undertake or desist from specified actions.

    In addition to the threat of or limited use of force (or both), coercion may entail economic sanctions, psychological pressures, and social ostracism." (https://www.britannica.com/topic/coercion)

    'Weasel words' from ICCL? Frankly, I don't know what to say. (https://www.iccl.ie/iccl-monitoring-rights-during-the-pandemic/)

    "ICCL supports the vaccine rollout by consent – not by coercion.'"

    "Vaccine certificates are coercive." (https://healthydebate.ca/2021/11/topic/ethics-of-vaccine-passports/) From an ethicist specializing in bioethics, philosophy of law, social philosophy and political philosophy. He is Director of the Centre for Professional and Applied Ethics, at the University of Manitoba - but Odyssey06 knows better than him? 

    If you don't think that coercion is the correct term, then what is, exactly? Are you confusing coercion with coercive control?

    Perhaps you could educate us on the 'legal definition of coercion'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,512 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


     Coercion-> "the use of express or implied threats of violence or reprisal or other intimidating behavior that puts a person in immediate fear of the consequences in order to compel that person to act against his or her will."

    There were no threats or consequences or intimidation to people for not getting a vaccine.

    They could not frequent pubs, gyms etc. Establishments that had been closed during covid restrictions and re-opened to vaccinated people only.

    Ask the ICCL if the vaccine mandates met the legal definition of coercion. Don't point me to nonsense opinion pieces, 'ethics' professors or throw out weasel words like 'coercive'. That is not coercion.

    Nobody in Ireland was coerced by the government into getting vaccinated.

    The vaccine mandates was a legitimate and justified approach to encouraging mandates in the circumstances of the time where unvaccinated people were effectively holding the country to ransom. These establishments were shut pre-covid, at great economic cost to the country.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Posts: 183 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    "There were no threats or consequences or intimidation to people for not getting a vaccine."

    If the vaccine passports had no consequences then why instate them at all? You are stumbling here. In your very next line, you list the consequences:

    "They could not frequent pubs, gyms etc. Establishments that had been closed during covid restrictions and re-opened to vaccinated people only."

    I am waiting for an education on the legal definition of 'coercion' still.

    P.S. you better write to Encyclopaedia Britannica and let them know their definition is wrong.



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