Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

connachta · 16-10-2022 12:26am

PS 2 he's in the squad listed for November, will happen :(

TRC10 · 16-10-2022 2:17am

Could be looking at quite a new look backline in a few weeks. Gibson-Park, Stockdale, Lowe, Conway, Earls, Larmour and Keenan are all currently injured and have played little to no rugby this season, and Aki is suspended.

With the players available currently, my money would be on a back 3 of Hansen/Baloucoune/Lowry.

Centres will probably be Henshaw and Ringrose. But I think McCloskey will see minutes v Fiji.

9 will be very interesting if JGP is out. Murray IMO shouldn't be in the extended squad. Munster's attack ticks far better with Casey and I think we're seeing a changing of the guard there this season. I'd like to see Cooney given another opportunity. I know there were personality clashes the last time he was in Ireland camp, but nearly 2 years have passed, and I think he's easily still the 2nd best 9 in Ireland (if not the best). And I just think with the RWC less than a year away, we should be leaving no stone unturned, and a player of Cooney's quality can't be just frozen out forever. If we're to get past the last 8 we'll need all the quality we can get. I think he should get another chance at the very least.

Interested Observer · 16-10-2022 9:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750402#Comment_119750402

9 will be very interesting if JGP is out. Murray IMO shouldn't be in the extended squad. Munster's attack ticks far better with Casey and I think we're seeing a changing of the guard there this season

It's a shame there's no European rugby before the AIs. This sort of comment was made last season as well but Murray started every single big game that Munster had, Casey got 0 starts in Europe last season.

I'd like to see Cooney given another opportunity

I'd say you or I have a similar shot to Cooney getting another go.

aloooof · 16-10-2022 9:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750650#Comment_119750650

But that was under a different coaching ticket. At some point Casey is going to replace Murray as first choice. I think there’s a good chance (and would like it to be) this season.

Akrasia · 16-10-2022 9:20am

Casey started last night in a must win game with Murray on the bench. When Murray came on, despite a moment or two of genius, our distribution got significantly worse

Casey got a bit of a battering, but if he's fit he will likely start next week against Leinster cementing his position as 1st choice 9 at Munster

Interested Observer · 16-10-2022 10:30am

Reading a really weird interview with Sammy Arnold in the Indo here, he seems very annoyed about his exit from Irish rugby. The TL;DR is:

Was playing for Munster, picked up an Irish cap, things seemed to be going fine
Munster signing DDA was announced
Arnold is offered a 3 year contract with Munster, seeks and is given assurances about his minutes given DDA coming in
Refuses to sign contract, Munster tell him if he doesn't sign it it will be withdrawn (presumably to finalise their squad), still refuses to sign it, contract is withdrawn
Ends up at Connacht, then ends up in France

He seems to be very annoyed at the fact he asked for more time to consider the contract but it wasn't given. I dunno though, it's pro sport, he had a good contract offer, he talks about all he'd given to Munster but he could have signed on again and he'd still be there now, given DDA has left again he'd have every chance of getting real minutes. He talks about his time in Ulster as well and apparently turned down the Quins academy, he just seems very impatient. Given the centres ahead of him for Ireland I don't think he'd ever have been first choice or anything but could have picked up more caps.

Former Former Former · 16-10-2022 10:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750402#Comment_119750402

I know there were personality clashes the last time he was in Ireland camp

Maybe there were, but Cooney was the one who decided to publicly criticise the national coach about his exclusion.

For a fringe player allegedly hoping to get back into the team, it was an extraordinary thing to do.

He'll never wear green again and barring a massive injury crisis, he's no loss.

Locke_Lamora · 16-10-2022 12:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750811#Comment_119750811

He always looked promising at underage level and I remember being a little disappointed he left ulster, but the reality was we had Marshall, McCloskey, Olding and Cave as senior centres and Stockdale coming through who was playing a little at 13 at the time I think.

I'm always in favour of players doing what's best for them though, but as professionals they need to be smart enough to realise that teams have a business to run. Seems like Munster might've known they were likely his backup option and didn't want to leave it late to look for his replacement in the squad. I'm sympathetic for him and I've seen him get a little more stick online than I think is warranted, but it is what it is.

TRC10 · 16-10-2022 5:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750852#Comment_119750852

You may be right on the first two points.

But to say he's "no loss" I think is untrue. IMO he's without a doubt in the top 2 scrum halves in Ireland, and arguably the best. If he was to declare for Scotland I think he'd walk into their XV. Casey and Murray are ahead of him in the Irish pecking order, but would Ulster take either of them ahead of Cooney? Not a chance.

Surely 2 years is long enough for him and Farrell to put whatever grievances they had aside in the interest of the national team and for Cooney to have maybe matured a bit.

Faugheen · 17-10-2022 11:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119752509#Comment_119752509

There has never been a time where Cooney was ‘without a doubt’ in the top two scrum halves in the country.

Also, ‘for Cooney to have matured a bit’? He’s 32 years old, not some energetic kid who’s getting a little frustrated. This nonsense just shows that he hasn’t the head for it.

Dubinusa · 17-10-2022 2:36pm

So what's the plan if Keenan and Lowe are unavailable? I assume that Stockdale is going to miss the international windows. Conway hasn't played, so should not be considered?

I'd go RB and Hansen. Maybe JOB on the bench and little Mike at fb?

Interested Observer · 17-10-2022 3:09pm

Ronan Kelleher out of the Autumn series. I've full faith in Herring but if himself or Sheehan get injured we're in trouble.

17-10-2022 3:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756423#Comment_119756423

Connors underwent surgery last week too on a bicep injury.

Early in Kelleher's career but those two guys are both showing worrying injury profiles.

They're also saying Harry Byrne out for 2 months with a hamstring problem.

From an Irish perspective, Dave Heffernan has played well in the last two interpros and would presumably come into the squad.

TRC10 · 17-10-2022 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755378#Comment_119755378

Agree to disagree. There was a time in 19/20 when he was in the top 2 scrum halves in Europe. Yes, he hasn't quite his those heights again, but he's still an excellent player.

Other than JGP, what Irish 9s are better than him currently? Certainly not Murray. Casey might get there but he's definitely not right now. Not McGrath. Neither of the two lads at Connacht are. And he's still keeping Doak out of the Ulster team. And I think many Ulster fans would keep Cooney over JGP.

Brief_Lives · 17-10-2022 3:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756484#Comment_119756484

TRC10... you gotta be carefull..!

unfortunately I am not knowledgable enough of other provinces. Bayern, is the man for that... But there is an Ennis scrumhalf, that i think is brilliant... so Casey and Murray are probably worrying about this guy....

whats the craic with other provinces?

Shehal · 17-10-2022 3:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756444#Comment_119756444

Rugby appears to only be a hobby for Harry Byrne nowadays.

17-10-2022 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756511#Comment_119756511

It must be just awful for him though; body just repeatedly letting him down.

Brief_Lives · 17-10-2022 3:38pm

How good is the lad? if he is good, lets massage him to bejaysus... but i am not sure he is the, actually him or Ross are...

mfceiling · 17-10-2022 3:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755378#Comment_119755378

Apart from the time when he was nominated as the European player of the year and being named on the Pro 14 team of the year and as Ulster player of the year. Apart from that time.

Murray was playing like a drain at that time (arm or shoulder injury was ruining his passing game), but we were told he'd play himself back into form. After a dozen or more games he still hadn't.

Must love hardship · 17-10-2022 3:41pm

When is the Irish squad for November being announced?

I presume it will be one large squad for the first weekend and the 2 teams to take on South Africa and the NZ xv select team will be picked from that?

Or will they announce two separate squads?

Cork2021 · 17-10-2022 4:11pm

With 3 weeks to go until we play the boks, what’s the starting 15 in people’s minds? Mine would be

Hansen Lowry Baloucoune

Henshaw Ringrose

Sexton Casey

Beirne Doris VDF

Henderson(if fit) Ryan

Porter Sheehan Furlong

bench

Herring,

Healy

Bealham

O Mahony

Conan

Murray

Frawley

Mccloskey

Shehal · 17-10-2022 6:38pm

Not confident in it happening but with Kelleher's injury I would love to see Tom Stewart potentially fast tracked into the set up, I obviously wouldnt play him against SA but for NZL XV & Fiji he could do a job based on what I've seen from him. Farrell does have a tendency of picking players regardless of their standing at their province if the player fits his system he'll pick them and Stewart looks the closest thing we have to Kelleher/Sheehan in terms of playing style. I would much rather pick Stewart who's a huge prospect and have an eye to the future than pick a Scannell/Heffernan who is only going to be a tackle bag holder/ emergency pick and will never be more than that and tbh it would be a wasted opportunity.

accensi0n · 17-10-2022 6:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756701#Comment_119756701

Reckon Healy is done.

Brief_Lives · 17-10-2022 7:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757351#Comment_119757351

i hope not... such a superhero for Ireland since 2009...

he does have limits, but if he comes on at 60 mins, I have no problem with that,,,

bilston · 17-10-2022 7:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756701#Comment_119756701

Keenan (Lowry if Keenan isn't ready), Hansen, Ringrose, Henshaw, Lowe, Sexton, Gibson Park (when is he due back?)

Porter, Kelleher, Furlong, Beirne, Ryan, Conan, Van Der Flier, Doris

Herring, Healy, O'Toole, Baird (Henderson if fit), Coombes (plenty of options here), Casey, Carbery, McCloskey

The No.23 Jersey is interesting, I was thinking Jimmy O'Brien, but then we've no Centre cover. McCloskey covers centre, Ringrose covers wing, Carbery and Hansen (I think) covers FB.

Not sure if I've forgotten anyone.

There's a few other lads that should be looked at as well.

I'd also like to see Stewart, Ahern, Doak and Crowley get a go against Fiji, but it's unlikely, Ahern may have a chance and maybe at a push Doak if Gibson Park is injured, but this is more hope than expectation on my part.

It should be a good series anyway. It's important that we don't fall into the old trap of thinking that the squad that was good enough to beat NZ in July 2022 is necessarily the right squad to compete for a WC in the Autumn of 2023. Not sure what that means for November 2022 though.

Cork2021 · 17-10-2022 7:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757452#Comment_119757452

Looking at injuries isn’t Farrell better to play players who’ve minutes got? JGP Lowe Keenan have had zero and when will they be due back? You’d assume this weekend is the last time any of the main players from the provinces play and go into camp with Ireland next Monday?