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Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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    #11012
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,984 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    The risk of developing myocarditis — or inflammation of the heart muscle — is seven times higher with a COVID-19 infection than with the COVID-19 vaccine, according to a recent study by Penn State College of Medicine scientists.

    https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/967801



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    #11013
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746681#Comment_119746681

    Watch now as scientific studies suddenly become useless again.



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    #11014
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭patnor1011



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746681#Comment_119746681

    This is not about comparing myocarditis risk from covid vs risk from vaccine. Issue here is that there is a risk of getting it from the vaccine. According to study you posted the risk of getting myocarditis when infected is actually higher if you are vaccinated.

    Next, the researchers separately compared the rates of myocarditis in those who received the vaccines to those in unvaccinated individuals. According to the findings, the rates of myocarditis in people who were vaccinated against COVID-19 were only twofold higher than in unvaccinated people.

    Still twofold higher and coupled with simple fact that vaccines will not prevent you from catching covid any discussion about risk of developing myocarditis from infection vs vaccine is pointless.



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    #11015
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747046#Comment_119747046

    This is a simple misreading on your part:

    The full quote:

    The Penn State team conducted the largest study to date on the risk of developing myocarditis as a result of having the coronavirus vs. experiencing inflammation following COVID-19 vaccination. The researchers compared patients with COVID-19 — vaccinated and unvaccinated — to those without the virus. They found the risk of myocarditis was 15 times higher in COVID-19 patients, regardless of vaccination status, compared to individuals who did not contract the virus.


    Next, the researchers separately compared the rates of myocarditis in those who received the vaccines to those in unvaccinated individuals. According to the findings, the rates of myocarditis in people who were vaccinated against COVID-19 were only twofold higher than in unvaccinated people.


    Based on all the findings, the researchers concluded that the risk of myocarditis due to COVID-19 was seven times higher than the risk related to the vaccines.

    It does not say that an infected person is more likely to have myocarditis if they've been vaccinated.

    They state that a person is equally as likely to get myocarditis from infection if they are vaccinated or not.

    It's been shown repeatedly that vaccines reduce your chances of infection as well as reducing your chances of illness.


    Here is the conclusion of the paper:

    Conclusion: In this systematic review and meta-analysis, we found that the risk of myocarditis is more than seven fold higher in persons who were infected with the SARS-CoV-2 than in those who received the vaccine. These findings support the continued use of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines among all eligible persons per CDC and WHO recommendations.

    If your interpretation is correct, then it makes no sense for them to make this statement in their conclusion.

    You won't explain this contradiction of course.


    You have repeatedly told us that covid and it's effects are not worth any concern. So if a 15 times higher chance of myocarditis is not worth any concern, it makes no sense to claim that a 2 times higher chance of myocarditis is of any concern.



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    #11016
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Nice try however as I said it make no sense comparing apples vs oranges. This study is absolutely irrelevant due to simple fact that vaccines do not stop you from getting infected.

    1. infected vs vaccine - where risk is higher when infected compared to risk from getting vaccine
    2. uninfected vaccinated vs unvaccinated - where risk is higher for vaccinated (twofold according to that study and a part I cited)

    while my point of even higher chance of myocarditis when infected while vaccinated still stand since vaccines does not prevent you from getting infected.

    What I cited is not out of context but part of context and no amount of mental gymnastics you try will change what they found.


    As for your last paragraph = complete nonsense as usual. Math is all there it pays to read slowly till you understand what you read.



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    #11017
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747061#Comment_119747061

    Nope. You're still misunderstanding things and still applying your silly black and white view of the world.

    The vaccines reduce your risk of infection. Vaccines also reduce the chances of getting ill from other effects of covid.


    And of course, all of this misunderstanding is actually irrelevant as you believe that the greater risk of myocarditis from covid is not a concern.


    It's also funny that you are reverting to claiming that this study is "irrelevant" and therefore fraudulent since the experts in the study directly contradict your stance.

    Which again for your convenience:

    Conclusion: In this systematic review and meta-analysis, we found that the risk of myocarditis is more than seven fold higher in persons who were infected with the SARS-CoV-2 than in those who received the vaccine. These findings support the continued use of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines among all eligible persons per CDC and WHO recommendations.

    I'm going to accept their statement over your personal untrained, highly biased opinion.



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    #11018
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    For the third and a last time.

    I am not arguing that the myocarditis risk is higher from infection than risk getting it from vaccine.

    I am simply saying that study found and it is there plain for everyone to see that risk of myocarditis when infected with covid is higher for vaccinated people than unvaccinated people.



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    #11019
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747078#Comment_119747078

    Ok. That's your interpretation of it that the authors of the study don't agree with.

    I trust them over you.

    Additionally, your point is then not relevant as you agree that the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine isn't a concern as the risk from covid is far far higher, but not a concern.



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    #11020
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,596 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747061#Comment_119747061

    Who ever said the vaccines would stop you from being infected?

    Your whole baseline argument is predicated on a misunderstanding / ignorance by yourself.

    Every study has shown that the vaccines reduced the risk of catching the virus and reduced the risk of getting seriously ill with the virus (including forming myocarditis). Every study recommended being vaccinated over not being vaccinated.

    What exactly is the conspiracy here?

    Were they all lying?

    If so, who ordered them too, and to what end?



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    #11021
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747122#Comment_119747122

    Who ever said the vaccines would stop you from being infected?

    That is precisely what it is designed to do, trials indicated it would do, and the regulators approved its use for.

    What is Comirnaty and what is it used for? Comirnaty is a vaccine for preventing coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) in people aged 5 years and older.


    What benefits of Comirnaty have been shown in studies? Primary vaccination. A very large clinical trial showed that Comirnaty, given as a two-dose regimen, was effective at preventing COVID-19 in people from 12 years of age.

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/overview/comirnaty-epar-medicine-overview_en.pdf

    It is specifically approved to stop infections:

    Comirnaty is indicated for active immunisation to prevent COVID-19 caused by SARS-CoV-2 virus, in individuals 16 years of age and older. 

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/assessment-report/comirnaty-epar-public-assessment-report_en.pdf

    It's nuts that this needs to be repeated again and again.



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    #11022
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747390#Comment_119747390

    Yes from Day 1 it was the natural assumption that the vaccine would prevent infection. Naturally severe illness or death would not be a factor if infection was curtailed or stopped. That was the assumption most reasonable people took the vaccine. We were sold a pup unfortunately and you will not have anything like the take up on boosters on 95%. If you had a rerun of the vaccine program and sold it on the basis of it will stop severe illness or death, not infection. I would guess 90% of the under 50's would have not taken it as they were never at risk anyway.



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    #11023
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,142 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749348#Comment_119749348

    We were not sold a pup.

    At ths time the vaccines were rolled out to under 50s the vaccines provided significant protection against infection from the variants then in circulation.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #11024
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749384#Comment_119749384

    That might be your opinion but significant damage has been done to any vaccine rollout in the future as the shift from infection to severe illness and death has been noticed by many. I would guess the booster uptake in the under 50's is negligible and any future vaccine rollout will have to pass some serious credibility tests and rightly so.



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    #11025
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,142 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749403#Comment_119749403

    Not my opinion. I am declaring it as a statement of fact.

    At the time the vaccines were rolled out to under 50s the vaccines provided significant protection against infection from the variants then in circulation.

    The evidence for it has been posted numerous times on the thread.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #11026
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749427#Comment_119749427

    You can declare whatever you want. They made no difference and Covid accelerated after their deployment.



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    #11027
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,142 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749443#Comment_119749443

    I don't know what you mean by that.

    As the vaccines were rolled out, society also opened up and restrictions were dropped.

    To state they made no difference is completely without foundation and shows you are unable to engage with the real world evidence showing that the vaccines provided significant protection against infection for the then variants, and are being disingenuous about what else was going on in the world at the time.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #11028
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749465#Comment_119749465

    No restrictions increased. Omicron was the only reason restrictions dropped after unvaxxed SA reported that Omicron was mild.



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    #11029
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,142 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749480#Comment_119749480

    As vaccines were rolled out in Ireland pubs, gyms etc reopened. Foreign travel.

    Restrictions were lifted.

    To state that restrictions increased is simply untrue.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #11030
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 14,033 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742294#Comment_119742294

    @snowcat I believe you've already been warned.

    From the Charter:

    • Do not just plagiarize or regurgitate source material.
    • This is NOT a facebook wall. Videos/media/links you do include in your arguments need to be supported with your own words, enough that a reader should be able to follow the conversation without viewing the media - users may be on dial-up, behind firewalls, etc. that restrict their access to streaming content.

    Anymore link dumping by you without your own text - not copied and pasted from elsewhere - will be deleted and you will be thread banned.



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    #11031
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749521#Comment_119749521

    Yes to those with a 'vaccine passport'. Which precipated another wave as those with Covid who had been vaxxed ended up travelling and socialising in the false premise they could not get or transmit the virus resulting in further waves.



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    #11032
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749554#Comment_119749554

    Only in your mind did that happen. Those of us living in the real world (the vast majority) knew it was possible to get covid even vaccinated.



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    #11033
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749563#Comment_119749563

    Right yeah. When did you start believing that? When you got Covid after your second booster i would guess.



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    #11034
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749580#Comment_119749580

    I had covid before vaccines were available. I haven’t had it since. Anyhoo…it was common knowledge that there was a risk. However, even something they is common can be deliberately ignored.



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    #11035
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749597#Comment_119749597

    Well we have something in common. Ive had Covid. Well it showed up on an antigen. Under 50 asymptiomatic. All the family had it too. No mrna vaxxes here even though kids are fully immunized with the good vaccines. They are all fine too.



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    #11036
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749627#Comment_119749627

    Me and everyone I know have had the vaccine. None of us have had any ill effects from the vaccine.

    Therefore the vaccines are safe.



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    #11037
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749580#Comment_119749580

    Funniest thing is that what they pretend that never happened or nobody ever said is all clear for everyone to see here on boards in various covid threads. Anyone with some time on their hands will quickly find out that current talk is just poor attempt to twist everything around. Whole saga as it unfolded over the last nearly 3 years.

    Not to mention all updates and various recommendations all over the Irish media internet websites. They do not even have courage to say that things changed with more info we got, they choose lies like "never happened" or "it was always meant" and similar BS.



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    #11038
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750501#Comment_119750501

    Yet you haven’t provided evidence of something you state happened. That is the true funniest thing!



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    #11039
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750501#Comment_119750501

    He claims falsely while ignoring 3 years of false conspiracy claims. And denying claiming the vaccines weren't actually vaccines.



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    #11040
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    Interesting from the USA. Probably all democrats who had the injury claims.

    https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/new-data-is-out-covid-vaccine-injury-claims-whats-make-it-2022-10-12/

    The CDC confirming that up to 3% were ill enough to at least need a consultation and possibly hospitalised. Huge figures if correct. And that is just in the first week after being vaxxed.

    Post edited by snowcat on


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    #11041
    snowcat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20221011/The-association-of-BNT16B2b2-mRNA-COVID-19-vaccine-with-thrombocytopenia-and-pneumonitis-A-case-report.aspx

    Another side effect of the mRNA vaccines and note the comments below the piece



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