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Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I'd say this is what has happened. Any or nearly every small community is the same in that way. People know people if the community is closely knit, thus news does indeed travel fast. Bailey would have learned about the murder early on.

    For a conviction you need to match killer to victim and scene of the crime. Either convincing evidence or a credible witness ( not Marie Farrell ). This would be it.

    At this point neither Bailey nor anybody else does qualify to be convicted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Ah right. I thought you might have been implying something else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Bailey has always maintained that Eddie Cassidy was the first person to tell him. But this later became a big problem for him because phone records show that the call was made at 1-40pm. Cassidy also maintains that at the time he rang Bailey, he wasn`t aware that the dead woman was French.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭tibruit



    "Caroline Leftwick remembered the date and time after nearly 5 months."

    I`m sure she still remembers it today after 26 years.

    "It took James Camier 2 years to remember the date and time"

    Not true. You are phrasing this to imply these witnesses had an epiphany of recovered lost memories which just is not the case at all.

    "Bailey called him while he was still asleep"

    A man who was not a shift worker who would have had to be still sleeping after 1-40 pm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "OK I`ll grant you that"

    "I`ll grant you that too"

    You see, you`ve just acknowledged that you have been spinning false narratives in an attempt to undermine the case against Bailey.

    "The only thing I`m defending here is justice"

    Nah. You`re a Bailey spinner. Go forth my minions and spread my gospel and do my bidding in the province of Media (Social that is). It is no coincidence that you have got busy spinning here at the same time that Scoobie has returned under an old handle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    ..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Bailey is a liar alright, but Cassidy in a different league.

    Post edited by chooseusername on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Well Bailey likes to highlight Cassidy`s memory difficulties and make him a liar but the reality was that Cassidy had a busy day on his phone that day and couldn`t realistically be expected to recall what exactly he said to whom and at what exact time. It is a very different scenario to what the people Bailey called had to remember which was a singular event. He may well have told Bailey that the dead woman was French in that first call, but there is no getting away from the fact that the first contact was 1-40 pm. Maybe you`re referring to something else. I don`t what you mean about Twomey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    I’ve taken out the bit about Twomey.

    But he failed to mention Cassidy’s phone call before 1:30 in his March statement, and in his May statement he had “forgotten” the details of the call.

    If Cassidy had said he didn’t mention she was French to Bailey it might be more believable than saying he was unaware she was French.

    I don’t know why you put so much importance on the fact the call was at 1:40.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    There is also photographer Michael McSweeney's claim that Bailey told him photos of the crime scene were taken at 11 a.m . And Jules, also a photographer, was seen in the area around that time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch



    I'm always happy to be corrected on detail, however irrelevant.

    I'm not spinning any narratives. I'm just asking questions. Questions to which you are, obviously, unable to provide plausible answers.

    I really don't have a dog in this fight. I just think that the Bailey propostion is so unlikey and has so many holes in it that it doesn't bear scrutiny.


    Also, I have only ever had one identity on this board and I don't know anything about "scoobie". However, since you raise the subject, I have noted the striking similarity in style, syntax and frequency of posting to a certain "Moonunit" of past acquaintance. I'm sure that this is simply a coincidence.

    Typically, you run and hide in unimportant detail, because it is transparent that you have no answer to the big important question(s)

    What relationship existed between Bailey and Sophie?

    Why would Bailey, (or any man) walk so far, in the middle of the night, To attack a woman for no reason? And then walk home again.

    How did he do so, without leaving the slightest trace of evidence, either at the scene or on his person/clothing.

    And what was his motive?

    I realise that these are uncomfortable questions for you, and that you would rather discuss the phase of the moon on the night, or whether Bailey was in the habit of taking morning coffee to his partner and I expect you will charge me with sounding like a broken record, but these are the questions that I want answers to before I can give serious consideration to this absurd proposition.

    Like the DPP, really.



  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    People are hung up on Bailey walking 11km in the dark based solely on Marie Farrell's evidence, a woman who if she told me water is wet I'd splash some on myself to make sure. Her evidence should be totally disregarded.

    Alfie Lyons seems a far more likely candidate - someone who lived next door, a criminal and who already had disputes with Sophie. Of course he would "see" Bailey meeting Sophie.

    Quite possibly the Gardai were in on his cannabis enterprise as they offered one witness cannabis if memory serves, hence the coverup. It certainly wouldn't be the only case of Gardai colluding with drug dealers.

    Whatever the truth, there were certainly some nasty people living down there at the time.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    there is plenty evidence he knew sophie. you just do not accept it as it does not suit your story

    he could have seen her is schull the day before and that could have given him a motive. a sexual motive. This was in one of his confessions in the third person.the one " you saw her in Spar .."

    Just because she was not sexually assaulted does not mean he did not go to her with sex as a motive. she may have rejected him or even hit him first. If you stove in someone head you would not be inclined to then sexually assault them. he probable lost it when she rejected him. he had had whiskey, his violence trigger

    Moonunit was a Bailey backer so i doubt tibruit is Moonie



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    I have no story.

    He might possibly have done it, but the liklihood is extremely remote.

    What evidence?

    Could have? Could have? May have? If you? Probably?..Trying to fit square pegs into round holes there..

    Moonunit was no Bailey backer. Neither am I.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    the evidence has been set out above. several gave evidence he knew before he should have known, several heard his confessions. I am not repeating it. why would they all lie or be wrong

    Moonunit was no Bailey backer. Neither am I.

    both of you defended him



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bailey said in a sunday indo interview with Brigid McLaughlin in 1997 that he had burnt clothing on the morning after the murder but it was because it was covered in turkey blood. This is in Malocco's book and i got a copy of the article. why does he now say there was no fire

    He drove Brigid McLaughlin over Hunt's Hill and stopped "where I stopped on the night of the murder"



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    I have not seen any evidence of an association between IB and Sophie.

    Moonunit was insistent that Bailey was guilty.

    The "he said" "she said" stuff on the confessions and timings was comprehensively debunked by the DPP.

    I'm still waiting for answers on the big questions. If anyone can provide me with them, I'm happy to reconsidder my position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Deeec


    In the 1990's people living in the country had fires when having a clearout and to dispose of rubbish. My father would have lit a weekly fires outside to dispose of our rubbish as we did not have a bin collection service. Although a fire is an odd thing to see or do now it wasnt at all in the 1990's. People disposing of old furniture, clothing, rubbish etc by having a fire wasnt unusual at all. Thats why again this cant be used as evidence. Just because himself and Jules had a fire means nothing.

    Im sure other people living in that locality lit fires to dispose of stuff at that time - Should they be suspects to?



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    And the fact that I reject the proposition does not make me a Bailey backer or defender.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    why did he say he had a fire to burn turkey blooded clothes and then no fire?. how many gave evidence they saw your father investigating a murder he did not yet know about. It is not one thing it is the build up of different things. it is how circumstantial evidence works

    The DPP re got his arse kicked in the libel court [ or maybe the case against the gardai] so i would not pay any attention to him. The judde was very critical of how the DPP rep presented his evidence. I agree with the podcaster who said the DPP did not want to prosecute bailey because it would show up their office and harbison



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I have not seen any evidence of an association between IB and Sophie.

    then if you do not want to see it i am not pointing it out again. Many people gave evidence he knew her both here and in France. A journalist like bailey would know everyone and what is happening in the area. I believe he saw her the day before in schull



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Deeec


    My point is lighting a fire to burn your rubbish wasnt unusual at all for the time. Everyone living in the country lit fires! This seems to be hard for some people to understand and they see this as suspicious when really it was an ordinary thing to see fires lit in peoples gardens and fields.

    Now he very well could have been burning his bloody clothes after the murder or he could be burning old clothes himself and Jules were finished with. There is no way of proving what he was burning. The act of lighting a fire is not evidence that he is guilty though.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Context

    Why does he change his story from burning turkey blooded clothes to no burning at all? He also changed his story re spending all night in bed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    He saw her in Schull?

    And that constitutes a relationship/association?

    Square peg....round hole.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    it ties in with his confession "you saw her in spar" and went there to "get some". It gives a motive of sex and the fact she was not sexually assaulted does not mean he was not looking for sex. He had whiskey taken too so a rejection would be likely to trigger violence



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    You don’t have a point.

    He said he had a fire to burn his clothes that were soiled by blood from a turkey and then denied he had a fire.

    He was a miserable git that was a hoarder, if it was turkey blood on his clothes he would more likely have boiled the clothes and drank the water afterwards thinking it was gourmet cuisine.

    Anyone killing a turkey knows if they slitting it’s throat it could potentially get a bit messy but it usually doesn’t. Anyone with a brain half the size of the turkeys can avoid any blood stains on the clothes they choose to wear beforehand.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/sophie-toscan-du-plantier-witness-claims-ian-bailey-told-her-i-was-washing-the-blood-off-my-clothes-41959737.html

    Speaking last week, the witness said: “I am sure that he told me at the beginning that he had met her. He also said to me that he saw her on the ferry to Cape Clear Island.”

    This backs up what the woman said in garda statements which are now over a quarter of a century old.

    who is this woman anyone know?



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Square pegs...round holes.

    There was no connection between them.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    you don't know that, there is much evidence you do not want to see as you are a bailey backer



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    ..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭chooseusername




  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭cnoc


    What do mean by this statement:

    The judde was very critical of how the DPP rep presented his evidence. I agree with the podcaster who said the DPP did not want to prosecute bailey because it would show up their office and harbison



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    “Many people gave evidence he knew her both here and in France.”

    He knew her in France? Is this in your Malloco book?



  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sophie was having multiple affairs herself. These affairs on both sides were common knowledge so there was nothing to expose.

    And she was in West Cork on her own - her kids weren't there either. Over Christmas. Very odd



  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Reading this I hope I'm never on trial ... So many people would convict Bailey even though there isn't a motive and no hard evidence, just because they basically think he's a creep. Frightening. That's not to say he didn't do it - but there is no credible evidence as the DPP pointed out.

    The Gardai were either laughably unbeliveably criminally incompetent or were framing Bailey to deflect from someone else.

    The French justice system is like something out of North Korea.

    I refuse to believe that there isn't any useful DNA evidence available even now - they have sequenced 20000 year old mammoth DNA FFS.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A pod caster the crime analyst i think she cslls herself, says the DPP didn't prosecute because they didn't want to show up how harbison took 28 hours to get there and there was only one state pathologist



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    You don't know there was no motive just that you don't know of any. It could be as i said above



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    It mentions guy Girard and Sophie's friend Agnes Thomas. Sophie told Girard she knew a writer bailey in Ireland



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Ah, ok, I thought you meant Bailey was in France, where he got to know Sophie.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,642 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Girard claims this... Girard miraclously remembered this information when?

    So to state "Sophie told Girard". Nope.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Girard suddenly remembered this piece of information in 1999 - 3 years after the murder. Long after Bailey became a suspect. Why did Girard suddenly remember this vital piece of information in 1999? Most rational people would have to assume he is a spoofer. If true he would have said this much earlier in the investigation.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah your nothing whatsoever to do with Scooby. A simple check of your account and posts would show the most basic of armchair detectives that, but obviously not our resident drunk SoulWriter.

    Moonunit, was quite clearly a garda. I believe AGS are quite vocal about placing officers in charge of social media, fair enough, needs to be done, but don't expect the rest of us to not notice. Tibs is very similar, but I prefer not to jump to conclusions. They have a job to do at the end of the day



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "I`m not spinning any narratives. I`m just asking questions"

    Most of your time is spent making factually incorrect statements. You continually say there is no evidence that Sophie and Bailey knew each other. Evidence that they did know each other has been produced at three separate court cases, none of which resulted in a favourable outcome for Ian Bailey. You continually deny factual reality. You are a total spinner.

    "Moonunit"

    You know all about Moonunit and you know nothing about Scoobie. Yeah right. Moonunit was a mine of information. Scoobie was a mine of misinformation and another total spinner. I was posting here at the same time as Moonunit. I am not he/she.

    "you have no answer to the big important questions"

    I have been posting on this thread for well over a year. I don`t avoid any of the issues. I didn`t get into it with one poster about his travails with the Gardaí because I couldn`t be arsed, I knew he was on a hiding to nothing and I didn`t need his law degree to see that either.

    "What relationship existed between Bailey and Sophie?"

    Based on both French and Irish evidence it was artistic and because she came over alone it may also have been physical. To think there was none requires a level of conspiracy that needs the participation of local Gardaí and a collection of several witnesses, French and Irish, some of whom don`t even know each other. The same principle applies to events on the day after the murder and the reality that he was able to tell a number of people about it all before he was actually contacted by the individual who first informed him about it. That requires a separate conspiracy involving several completely different witnesses.

    "Why would Bailey walk so far"

    It is you who keeps saying he would have walked. I am open minded about whether he walked or drove and I have no real issue with either. Both are eminently possible.

    "in the middle of the night to attack a woman for no reason?"

    You have invented an improbable narrative that he went over there to kill so that you can criticize that narrative. It is unlikely he went over there to kill anybody just as he didn`t walk through Jules`s front door because he had a desire to assault her.

    "without leaving the slightest trace of evidence, either at the scene..."

    Sophie was unable to put up a fight. Forensics indicate that she didn`t scratch her assailant, she didn`t pull his hair, no sexual assault so no semen and if it was Bailey who did this, then based on the descriptions of his scratches, he didn`t leave his blood at the scene either. Therefore, he would have been confident in giving a DNA sample later on, the alternative being a refusal that would indicate guilt. Bailey wrote an article proposing that Sophie fled from an assailant who chased her and hit her on the back of the head with a weapon which would have presumably incapacitated her. He also wrote that there had been no sexual assault and this was before that information was in the public domain. How did he know that?

    "or on his person/clothing"

    Clothing and footwear burned in a bonfire a couple of days after the murder by a man who was a hoarder and who never got rid of anything.

    "And what was his motive?"

    Asking what Bailey`s motive to kill Sophie would have been, is asking the wrong question. What was the motive for his assaults on Jules? Minimal provocation. Probably a run of the mill domestic that became a near death experience for Jules. Ordinarily the important question would be what was his motive for going over there? But we actually don`t need an answer to that either because we know from conversations that he and Jules had on Hunt`s Hill and back at the cottage that for whatever reason, he wanted to go over there, we know he got out of bed and was unaccounted for until the following morning. Have you read Jules`s statement that she signed in the presence of her legal representative yet?

    "I realize these are uncomfortable questions for you"

    You realized wrong.

    "that you would rather discuss the phase of the moon on the night"

    No thanks. Don`t attribute things to me that I haven`t said. The moon only came up in our discussions because you tried to spin a false narrative that it was a dark night.

    "these are the questions I want answers to before I can give serious consideration to this absurd proposition"

    You seem to have a very high opinion of yourself and think the rest of us are here to provide answers to your questions. You cannot on the one hand conclude that the proposition is absurd and at the same time acknowledge that you require answers to a number of questions.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Did anyone ever see this.? I can't find it online anywhere. It sounds a bit trashy tv3 garbage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Given the amount the Garda invested in framing Bailey, I'd suggest the Guards were in on it in some way. Otherwise they would never have bothered coercing Marie Farrell and offering drugs to a transient ex-soldier to get close to Bailey, as well as the Bandon Garda tapes, which make some lamentable listening.

    To me it's a fact that the Garda played a role in this murder in some way shape or form. Nobody would have gone to that length if they hadn't something to cover up.

    I also don't believe that Bailey walked 11km in the dark anywhere from 1am to early morning after several drinks in the pub, just to meet a women who barely was ever at her holiday home, to ask for sex and if rejected killed her. Yes, it's possible, Bailey had the time, the means, no alibi, but it's just not credible. Also the motive for Bailey is to date not established. Other than the endless sexual story, nobody ever came up with a credible and decent motive.

    Alfie has had issues with the law, namely drugs. He was also a known drug user. Thus I'd judge him as a dodgy character. He was also the closest to her with Shirley during the night of the murder.

    Leo Bolger has had issues with the law as well, also drugs, not using, but growing and dealing. He'd gotten off lightly once before and any next offence would have sent him straight to jail for quite a while. His motive to murder Sophie would have been even higher.

    And then there were the Garda who gave drugs to a transient without any home, who was sleeping in barns. Since when are the Guards handing out drugs to get somebody to talk?

    Sophie's husband, viewed by motive he would still be suspect number one, as he had from a financial perspective the strongest motive, - how he would have organized a hitman, and paid him without leaving a paper trail is another matter. I'd suggest the financials would have left Daniel Toscan du Plantier financially way worse of than Leo Bolger losing out on any drug dealing.

    In light of what has happened, I'd say the killer is either in relation to the husband wanting to avoid a messy and costly divorce or some drug related matter and Guards being in on it, and covering things up.

    I clearly don't think it was Bailey wanting sex with Sophie.



  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    100%. Thinking logically about it this is the only conclusions you can come to. Unless DNA evidence, of which there must be lots still available, says otherwise.



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