Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Govt to do 'everything' to prevent evictions - McEntee

Options
1151618202123

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    And where will they "flee" en masse at this juncture?

    It's declining house prices and into the arms of the state.

    Anyone with their head screwed on is keeping hold of the property and taking the high-water-mark rents they are enjoying.

    They are of course welcome to sell, but from here on out, it's an act of financial self harm to do so. That's how we'll see it play out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Not any longer, There are two formerly rented properties in my close vicinity for sale I have been keeping my eye on just as a bellwether excercise. Both sitting on the market for about 4 months. One has seen a 10k asking price drop already. There's more where that came from.

    They are in a desirable suburban location with loads of white-collar employment in the area. I fully expect them to sell signficantly below asking (to the local authority most likely) or back with tenants in them in after a few months. Price expectations do not favour sellers and won't for the bones of two years (minimum).

    That's the way the wind is blowing, and all the shouting at the moon won't make a blind bit of difference.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    Are you calling a property market correction?

    What percentage fall in prices are you predicting?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,484 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    It's not resulting in 'more professional' landlords stepping in to save the day though, is it? The majority of rental properties for sale are bought by people for use as their own home and results in a decline in rental supply overall.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 19,431 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    And what is your issue with people buying their own homes?

    Perhaps we should prevent people from buying homes and insist they rent them instead from landlords?

    Regardless, you have no source for your claim in any case



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,484 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    I don't have any issue with people buying their own homes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,431 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Nope. The incompetent ones are getting flushed out, along with smart ones who want to cash out at the top



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,431 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Well then you should be happy for them that they are have the opportunity to do so......even though you have no source for your claim



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I'm not calling for anything. I'm spoonfeeding you what's happening already.

    If you're asking my opinion, property prices could probably stand to fall, and we'd all be the better off for it. There is no asset class that can increase until the end of time without a correction of some sort. Particularly not an "asset class" that is not merely "nice to have", it's something that everyone needs access to on a somewhat affordable level for society and the economy to function.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones



    So only the competent stupid ones remain?

    Is that not a bit of a contradiction



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,484 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    I'm delighted for them, not so much for people remaining in an ever tightening rental market though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    Oh no hang on now. You've been making some big statements about what is and what will happen. Don't be backing down when asked for specifics

    "Donald Trump" just called the top above you.

    Stick with it. You said it



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Well if they didn't sell in or around mid way through the year, they have mis-timed the market in a big way.

    I'm not calling them stupid, they made their decision. And just as people looking to buy their first home had to swallow high house prices for years, so too will people selling have to swallow lowering house price expectations. As someone posted in the thread earlier "thems the breaks" right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I've been very specific about what's happening in the market, and specific about what will happen.

    It's being borne out already (see the SBP today) and I will get more right with every passing day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    New apartments a good bit out of city near Luas in Loughlinstown, I just heard that the 3 beds are gone for 3,500 a month, snapped up immediately by various companies paying first 6 months for their employees. 2 beds are 3k a month. Hail to the REIT!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    So you are in fact calling the top of the market and a property market correction.

    OK

    What kind of percentage?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    3 and 3.5k a month.

    All hail the funds. The average renter is saved.

    The mom and pop landlord might not put the rent up at every opportunity as they have good tenants and don't want the hassle. Eventually they will fall behind market rate and become stuck.

    The Reits won't though. They will add on every single percentage that they can at every opportunity they can. You can bank on that



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I haven't got my spreadsheet to hand (tounge in cheek), but you don't need a PhD from LSE to know that the next 18-24 months will see a decline in house prices.

    Again, I don't have a hotline to the European Central Bank, but we do know which way interest rates are going. And you should know what that means shouldn't you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    I don’t foresee a major house price crash like that in 2008 and there’s definitely not going to be a surplus amount of properties all over the country like then either. The population is increasing at a fast rate and property for them to live in isn’t keeping with that pace.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    You are calling it or you aren't.

    You made some big predictions half a dozen of your posts ago but now seem to be climbing down when asked for specifics.

    Very Stephen Donnelly-esque of you.

    OK no worries. Il disregard your predictions. We will just have to agree to disagree.

    Best if luck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Then they are free to sell en masse and take the price the market is offering. What do you think happens in that scenario, does the arrow go up or down?

    Like I said, bluff called on the "en masse" selling. The institutional landlords are stepping away because of cheap money drying up, and there's fanny all to sell to beyond cash buyers and and the state.

    There is still new units coming on stream in the next 24 months, and it will be state opening the chequebook and price-setting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I've already called it in case you haven't been paying attention. Prices will go down, and the bite will really start happening in the spring.

    Like the other poster, I'm not predicting a "major" correction, but prices will fall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    Interest rates rising, nowhere even close to long term average yet, is not necessarily going to cause a price drop.

    The central bank has enforced rigorous stress testing to cover that scenario. Lessons were learned from the last crisis and in recent times we have seen house price increases stall for a year pre-covid only to start to rise again with limited supply during Covid. This is where the ESRI are estimating a 7% over valuation. All else equal inflation on its own will tend to put prices up, the associated interest rate hikes have the opposite effect. The difference between inflation and interest rates is important and at the moment that is still high, and where that spread narrows it is likely to be for a short period. Public sector salaries are going up over the next 2 years counteracting interest rate rises impact on affordability.

    You could just see liquidity dry up until inflation is tamed, sellers hanging on and buyers waiting as they can't agree on price. This happened to the housing market in the UK around Brexit. Buyers didn't want to buy without a discount because they feared the outcome of Brexit would impact prices, sellers didn't want to sell at a discount because they feared it would prove to be the wrong decision if Brexit fears were overblown. Market liquidity dried up, no-one had to sell they could just wait. I wouldn't focus too much on the prices of one or two units being representative in any market.

    The fact we have a housing crisis will obviously tend to pull prices up as demand way outstrips supply and supply is likely to drop with the cost of building inflating, so I doubt we will be down to having only LAs in the market any time soon.

    My prediction is that we are going to see this landlord sell off continue, and we might finally get the famed 'soft landing' resulting in a drop of around 10%, due to lessons learned in the last crisis.

    Consensus opinion on Covid at the time was that it would lead to a 12% drop in house prices, but the limited supply effect kicked in and we could have similar again this time except through inflation.

    But to quote Niels Bohr

    -- it is difficult to predict, especially the future



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,431 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    The stress test means that people who were assessed, say two years ago, were assessed as being able to cope with the current rise in rates. Their money is spent and they are not going anywhere. Even if they fall behind on their mortgages, they won't be turfed out of their houses. (That they were stress tested doesn't mean that they will be able to cope. But that is a different matter. Some people's life circumstances might have changed or they might just not be good with money!)

    So you have to look at where we are starting from today. Mainly for new, but also for existing. And add in the fact that more people are on fixed rate products now. There are still people who held onto their trackers for dear life, but they will have had around 15 years paid down on them by now.


    The people who predicted house price drops due to covid were making perfectly valid predictions. They made them though before the extent of the State supports was made clear. You guys appear to shout a lot about State intervention when you think it might negatively affect you, but tend to quickly forget when there is positive intervention which greatly benefits you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,976 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    House prices are still higher than what they would have paid for them. Even with rising interest rates, house prices aren't going to drop either due to lack of new builds and high demand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    That's very much dependant on when they bought them isn't it?

    A landlord going to the market is welcome to do so, but there will be no "en masse" effect, because who are they going to sell to? The volume of transactions in the individual buyers segment will decline as night follows day with higher interest rates, and you can take that to the bank. Institutional investors are taking their ball and going home (taking a lot of heat out of the market), and you'll see the state being far more aggressive in picking up large swathes of the some 30'000 new units coming on-line next year.

    The wind has changed, funny-money prices for property is over for a while, and prices will decline.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    "The private investor is taxed at a marginal rate of up to 55% whilst the private equity fund/REIT pays 0% tax on rental profit, once they exit the market within a defined period."

    "While this practice is riddled with imparity for our members, it is the loss to the Exchequer that is astounding when one considers that some REITs continue to make rental profits totalling hundreds of millions of euro."



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    Who are they going to sell to?

    Renters working in the public sector getting counter inflation pay increases over the next two years for one, paying rents that are double the mortgage repayment even at increased rates and bonus of owning a house at the end of it.

    Even without the 2x factor a 1x factor makes sense because you have a home you can't be evicted from and own it at the end of it.

    You don't think there are 20,000 of those or similar buyer out there?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    And the state buying up units will decrease supply meaning more demand for anyone selling.



Advertisement