EX FG voters, why have you stopped supporting them?

Media politics pandering to the headlines! No real appetite for change just an appetite to hold onto their seats!

Party politics in this country is a complete farce all and I mean all participants in Dail Eireann are there to line their own pockets and have no regard for the good of the nation!

No Government will take on the civil service or reform the HSE all are sitting on their hands and are happy to do so!

ex member of the party here, 2016 was the first election I did not vote for FG and haven't so much as give the party any form of preference since I last voted for its candidates in 2011.

Tbh after seeing two people close to me exposed to reliance on the public health system (one with physical health problems one with mental health problems) that should be enough to stop anyone living in a first world country voting for any party that's been in government the last 25 years. And thats before you factor in how much we spend on health and the amount of tax taken to pay for it

Many other reasons too (and some apply to parties other than FG also)

• I don't vote for parties that tax incomes at marginal rates of 50% and over
• I don't vote for parties that steal from my pension
• I don't vote for parties that prioritise welfare recipients over workers (e.g. repeatedly raising dole by more per week than a worker on the median wage gets in a tax cut - many more examples)
• IMO the cardinal sin of Irish politics is letting FF anywhere near power - FG allowed this party of incompetent, corrupt charlatans into power less than 15 years after they bankrupt the country (again)
• I won't vote for a party with an untrustworthy snake and spoofing buffoon (Leo Varadkar) as leader
• see previous comments in the thread about the farce that is our so called immigration policies
• I won't vote for a party that allows paying ones mortgage / rent etc be optional on the basis that the rest of us will pick up the tab

I could probably continue all day tbh.

Its very perplexing why the party has alienated those that should be its staunch voter base to chase after people who never have & never will vote for the party.

"As long as FG face no serious challenge to their right they will continue to pursue these sorts of policies on the basis that most people minded like you will continue voting for them as 'the best of a bad lot'..."

But the OP says he isn't voting for FG!!! You've said this many times on this board but FG is losing votes. I do agree somewhat with that some voters want right of centre but settle for least left (I socialise and work with a lot of these types) but there are swathes of others (myself included and I'm sure other posters on this thread too) who have abandoned the party - election results and opinion polls categorically show this. So this approach has absolutely cost the party votes and seats.

Basically I'm putting my money/vote where my mouth is, when any party's candidate (not just FG) knocks on my door Ill ask them not to return until we see a more fiscally (not socially) conservative stance where workers are prioritised and not welfare recipients (and I include pensioners in this cohort).

I don't know of anyone who is remotely satisfied with this Government, they performed very poorly in the 2020 election, I think that is as good as they will ever do again, there is too much anger out there regarding inflation, consequences of lock down, small businesses are being completely crushed and it won't get any better, I don't know how young people aren't out on the streets, they are being completely thrown under the bus regarding housing, opportunities. Being woke won't save Fg either, appointing McEntee or Harris as a leader will banish them altogether.

I feel completely deflated by the leadership of Varadkar. This cabinet is the most useless of my entire life...they literally handed the country over to Health bureaucrats from the most dysfunctional health service in the EU.

If most Irish people are centrists, which I agree with by the way, then why are the traditional political parties (FF, Fg and Labour) all suffering. Maybe they have left the centre so to speak.

They LIED in 2011 saying they would not bring in property tax. As soon as they had a nice juicy 5-year mandate they brought it in anyway. Pack of pricks. I utterly despise them to this day because of it

Lpt bring in as pittance. They could scrap it no bother. It is abused and set at a rate that makes no sense to collect. I bet its total is a fraction of the welfare increase this budget.. scrap it and replace it with a proper tax on vacant property and land... big vote winner. Not a vote winner.. increasing handouts to people who never vote for you and despise you. Alienating those who used to vote for you, including the working poor... FG pulled some con job...

Getting rid of vatadkar, claiming the party has strayed too far from its manifesto, bring in a proper hard line leader to end this welfare before workers, and actually doing it, could win back some support...

The FG New Politics document in 2011.

They lied. As corrupt as FF. Zero vision or integrity.

Fine Gael got 20.9% in the 2020 general election, the opinion poll today, when the country has been through Covid, Brexit and Ukraine crises is at 21%.

This thread is a nonsense in that context, FG voters are sticking with their party.

Looking at that opinion poll, my money is still on the only two possible options, the return of this government or FF/SF, the same choices that we had after the last election. Nothing has changed.

They’re far too left wing and pro welfare state. They look after everyone bar those that make an effort to better themselves. The welfare classes are so brainwashed by SF et al propaganda that they’re so blind to see the reality that FG are the ones that actually best represent their “interests” now.

The thread is asking why FG voters have stopped supporting them, I am pointing out that the thread is over two years out of date because FG are holding their vote. You don't address that.

I stopped after 2011 I genuinely thought we would see massive political change as well as reform of our public sector and got absolutely nothing like it. In fact in my eyes they took the FF playbook and ran with it.

I'm very much still an FG supporter. And, unless and until there is a party further to the right fiscally - while maintaining a social left like FG - I will continue to do so. The polls dont show voters abandoning FG at all. The tax band increase will help middle ireland, the first party to do anything in that area for a long time. Middle Ireland and the motorist are two groups that are looked at as a cash cow to fund the lazy idle bloated welfare class.

There arent any other credible options. Who else would you prefer, SFFF? A coalition between terrorists and the gombeens that bankrupted us? Don't make me laugh.

I actually agree with your general point about there being no alternative (which I would vote for if it existed) however pushing the old "terrorist" line won't be enough to stop SF anymore. Who amongst their current TDs is a Terrorist?

That's the kind of outdated thinking which has FG where it is.

Again, before I get called a Shinner-bot I'm not going to vote for them because their policies are just a worse version of the current shower.

But the whole "terrorist" thing is a beaten docket.

I mean it's not that long ago that they were a party of convicts. Famously even with links to murderers. Even most recent elections showed problematic individuals that were not condemned by the party

You can't claim this is a great look either.

Sinn Féin having ‘chilling’ effect on Ireland’s democracy, says taoiseach | Ireland | The Guardian

This list from 15 years ago is interesting reading.

Who in Sinn Féin was IRA? | Magill

"And where are these voters supposedly seeking a fiscally conservative alternative to FG going? Do they think they are going to get it from SF?"

I most certainly do not - but maybe a term for SF in government would result in a right left divide emerging? Maybe not

But for me its put up or shut up. The only way a sensible (IMO of course, as in my definition of sensible. Might not align with others) party emerges is if people demand it, thats what I'll do. I might be pissing in the wind. Maybe there's not enough people willing to put up or shut up. maybe there's not enough people who want some sensible fiscal policies. Who knows? I can only control where my own vote goes. I want change - that won't be achieved by voting for parties that refuse to change anything.

no question workers have been getting screwed over, but this has been occurring for decades now, long before this current government, living on welfare isnt all what its cracked up to be, ask anyone on it, or better again, try it!

again, our taxes are actually pretty much on par with other oecd nations, but we urgently need to increase taxation on the accumulation of wealth, particular in relation to the value of assets such as property, as this is starting to cause a wealth divide amongst current asset owners, primarily older generations, and non asset owners, primarily younger generations...

again, on law and order, we re also doing fairly average here to, but with the rising wealth gap, i.e. wealth inequality, expect this to rise, as this is generally a common outcome of so....

'cowardice'! the government actually done very well during covid, certainly when you compare us to our nearest neighbors, i.e. the us and the uk!

our housing issues were noted by respected commentators for well over a decade now, reasoning, the outsourcing of construction to the private sectors such as the fire sectors, which of course lead to the major crash of 08, and the continual polices to do so, i.e. no immigration hasnt caused this problem, but it is exasperating it!

• An open door policy on asylum seekers and immigration - adding massively to the huge cohort of people demanding handouts. Not to mention the massive future social problems that await.
• Repeated improvements to social welfare acting as a disincentive for many to re-enter the workplace.
• Allowing the housing market to deteriorate without intervention - not intervention in the form of social housing, but ensuring that people who are trying to better themselves have places to live. People going to university should be able to find accomodation. People working hard in their jobs should be able to afford housing. On that point, allowing the conversation around housing to be derailed into a social housing controversy.
• Allowing the media to dictate policy in the cases of Mandatory Hotel Quarantine which was an absolutely absurd waste of time.
• Allowing bottom of the barrel idiots like McEntee free reign to implement stupid policies for her social media likes.
• Widening schemes such as the medical card to encompass more people, clogging up facilities with chancers who coughed once 4 days ago so decide they need a check up (because they have nothing better to do anyway), while people working hard don't bother going to the doctor now because of the colossal wait times.
• Making travellers a distinct ethnic group within the state, thereby encouraging their disgusting behaviours to continue with no repercussions.
• Allowing the Green Party to dictate policy with completely nonsensical sh*te, which will have disastrous consequences, purely to keep hold of power.

That's not going to happen.

Micheal Martin pushed thru legislation in 2011 (1st thing he did in opposition) regarding the funding of parties, it was presented as a move to "clean up" politics after the corrupt leadership of FF Ahern etc, it also meant that the likelihood of a new political movement being able to get off the ground was next to impossible...which of course, was the real purpose of the legislation.

It is no coincidence that the now largest party in the State is the only party with the financial means to maintain and sustain a political presence across the countries constituencies.

Some recent FG TD legends.........

Dara Murphy (please pay back the fraudulent expenses)

Alan Farrell (insurance fraud - somehow still a TD!?)

Maria Bailey

Josepha Madigan (see above)

Michelle Mulherrins (had constituents in Kenya)

Crony Coveney

Leaky Leo

Tayto McEntee

and there is a list of dodgy councillors a mile long.

Top of the list - Hugh McElvaney - show me the money!

New Politics.

Can't speak for others but absolutely incorrect wrt me

I come from a staunch FF family, one of the many reasons I've never voted FF in my life (never given a FF candidate so much as a preference) is the cohort of chancers and charlatans that has inhabited the party. I would apply this kind of logic to any party

At the last GE I I voted for an autistic or eccentric man who ran as an independent (he was a monarchist or whatever, and I might even note if Ireland wanted a gay civil partnered head of state, the Jacobite pretender, the Duke of Bavaria fits the bill😁 and his partner won't spout Russian propaganda points), and had usually voted FG, with ever growing reluctance. The main parties are confidence tricksters of one sort or another and those who are true believers like the Greens have done such damage (thank them for the excess of small diesels thanks to an unwise tax change while palling with FF. FF should be proscribed for the damage it has done over the decades. PBP and co. draw their politics from the English and somewhat anti-Irish Socialist Workers Party and don't even deserve the sobriquet or tag of populist, which they are. I would say that if someone voted for a certain party of property from the north and they implemented their policies as promised, there wouldn't be just mass emigration but a veritable refugee crisis, but seriously the levels of mass immigration are just utterly insane and is a major factor driving absurd rents. An anti-immigration accelerationist could vote for that crew from the north whose policies are a reverse of their name and founder. The overall direction of the country not remotely sustainable and all the parties offer nothing, but slight variations on what doesn't work.

Basically FG are now another pro bureaucrat centre left party like FF, differing only really in its traditions.

The HSE (made up of already bad Health Boards no bank account Bertie stuck together) is a disaster of waste and bad service, quangos waste billions and won't shut up, and this country has a not particularly large workforce working for a population largely or wholly dependent on taxpayer transfers. Here endeth my rant. 😎

"Reading through this thread is seems like there is a large PDs-shaped hole in the political spectrum."

My opinion (be it representative of a PD-shaped hole or not) is that many people feel that if you work and pay tax in this country there is not a single party that represents one's interest. Play by the rules and all you get in return is a bill to pay for those who don't play by the rules. Dole increases by more than the tax cut a worker on 30k gets, housing debate is often centered on social housing, forgetting the plight of those that pay their own way etc. etc. etc.

There's obviously a bit of selection bias on show in this thread as well as it specifically asked why ex FG voters had deserted the party.

Is this 'sleaze' massively relevant to this thread though, i.e. a major factor in FG's loss of support?

I would argue right-leaning voters, if they were broadly happy with FG's policy platform, would be willing to hold their nose about that stuff as they have no other credible option.

As for left-leaning ones, well a lot of them climbed on the FG bandwagon in 2011 but were they ever going to stick with them over the long haul, irrespective of how they were performing in government?