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Young voters' view of the Troubles on the island of Ireland.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 913 ✭✭✭thegame983


    As per their actions it is seemingly obvious that the main focus of FFG is to eradicate the concept of home ownership from ordinary people and transfer as much wealth & property as possible into the arms of foreign investment firms. Compare how these funds are treated compared to small Landlords who are being forced out where possible.

    On top of that that they do everything to keep rents high (eg HAP scheme - just a blatant transfer of tax payers money directly to investment funds) with the goal being to transfer as much of your monthly salary as possible to these funds in the form of rent.

    When MM, Leo and the rest are done in Leinster house they will be rewarded with cushy high paying board seats (or something similar) for the favors they have provided for these companies. Just like Enda is enjoying right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    If many of us had seen our parents harressed by the RUC & British army and even set up to be shot dead by loyalist death squads on top of having no jobs because of Loyalist ran Councils etc a lot of people from the south would have ended up joining the IRA like young men in Armagh & Tyrone.

    When the British were in Tipperary, Cork etc the locals fought the British too in a brutal manner with many many deaths including local suspected informers. Hard to see the difference really between the South Tipperary IRA & the South Armagh IRA



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,665 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Is every time a civilian killed a terrorist act? Who decides when it is legitimate to kill a civilian and when not. The dresden bombings killed 22k innocent civilians in two nights (7 times the amount of people who died in the troubles over a 30 year period) Was that acts of terrorism? The IRA in their minds were at war with Britain. Does everyone who call the IRA terrorists also call the allies forces for what they did to Dresden terrorists? It is up to everyone how they interpret facts of the past. Somebodies freedom fighters are someone elses terrorists. Parts of the Ukraine have been gerrymandered off and put into Russia. If Ukraine forces fight back are they terrorist? Whole thing is subjective. We are supose to have freedom of expression so anyone can legally have a pro or anti IRA stance. Do you need to shove your opinions on others?



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    No, we have been over this before. It is when nationalism and politics mix, as in SF/IRA, Putin, Trump and Brexit, that it gets bad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Democratic legitimacy is a start. The PIRA never had any.

    All of your other examples have democratic legitimacy.



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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Dexter Gorgeous Cross


    The dresden bombings killed 22k innocent civilians in two nights (7 times the amount of people who died in the troubles over a 30 year period) Was that acts of terrorism?

    Dresdon, and many more British atrocities besides, was 100% wrong, yes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    What if some Provos use their connections to a Dublin government with SF in it to obtain files that contain information about retired gardaí and informers who worked against the Provos during the Troubles? After all, the Provos' Army Council still exists. Surely, some people have considered the possibility of that scenario becoming real, haven't they?!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    I agree it was a horrible act but it was a war for survival. Yes Dresden did little but show Germany the Allies capabilities. The axis was an existential threat to western way of life and liberty. After the war was over what nations benefited in freedoms and alike. Those killed should not be forgotten such loss of life. Remember the West has never gone back to these tactics they were necessary at the time after WW2 ended we have not gone back. Some are still living like that russia NK china.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,665 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Had not herd of that phrase and looked it up and see it is defined as

    "the capacity of a political system to engender and maintain the belief that existing political institutions are the most appropriate or proper ones for the society".


    But that would mean everytime a regime is overthrown there is no democratic legitimacy. Yet throughout history reveloutions that succeeded are celebrated and ones that didn't are branded terrorist uprisings.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,709 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I don't recall the South Tipperary IRA putting bombs in shopping centres

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,709 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    You think that is some sort of rebuttal?

    Seriously?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Absolutely, as is the links with the PLO, Basques etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Count Dracula


    Can you imagine the outrage today if a mother of ten was kidnapped from her home at gunpoint by a gang who then tortured her so badly that they had to hide her body on a beach in the middle of nowhere for fear of anyone finding out what they actually did to her?

    Shove your property crises up where the sun doesn't shine, you chancers.

    The plan is basically to tax the shight out of every last bit of the country that produces anything and to then use that money to fund ghettos of people to hang around doing nothing, which is all they will be left to do when every last cent of foreign investment decides to get out of dodge.

    They will pour the rest of the money into the back pockets of the owners of a decentralised health system which in fairness has been a shambles for a nearly a century. People will get paid more to do nothing, Happy days.

    The next step is to ask almost a million people in the six counties if they wouldn't mind joining a communist democracy which will force them to completely disregard their culture and existence based on the wishes of people who don't even live there. They will be expected to do nothing or get the boat to Scotland. The plan reckons that those million or so people won't mind having their identity compromised and that they will get used to it, if they don't it is their fault for even existing and they should put up with it?

    It astonishes me that the youth of this country have managed to indulge themselves in this crap, I respect that it is tough out there, but in all fairness you would want to have lived during the 1980's. The boat to Wales was packed, you could get a bus to London from Store street.....it cost around 20 quid. I remember balling my eyes out watching my sister get on that phucking thing, with a rucksack and a flask of tea in her hand, she had no other option at the time. I remember families saving money for their brother's family when they lost their job and hadn't a penny, the rows they had over it. There was no phucking labour courts back then either, you turned up and shut up and were happy if you got paid of a Friday. Some companies never made it either, going bust with not a penny to spare, staff ripped off and left with nothing. Foreign companies didn't want to know, they just saw a country with massive social problems and an ugly sectarian conflict which saw people murdered by the day. It took years for business people to be convinced we were a safe bet, we simply were not trusted.

    These morons are going to push their crap onto everyone with a total disregard for the consequences. They are going to escalate a holy shít storm in the six counties that will knock this country back 30 years. It will be a shambles beyond belief. Belfast will be turned into a daily riot with public services abandoned and an international quagmire involving a redeployment of British armed forces for god knows how long? Once again the good decent people of the north will be forced to live through fear whilst observing a gang of psychos carry out carnage of tit for tat killings and maimings in the name of a every other phucking asshole who figured death and murder was a worthwhile pursuit in the name of freedom.

    This country has come a long way from Vinegar Hill and the GPO. It has managed to have a sustained peace for the first time since the famine, why in the name of whatever would or should it allow itself to reinvolve itself in such bullshít over the colour of a flag? If it really gave a shight about the north it would endeavour to allow everyone have a fair option as to what identity it wants to pursue. I am not ignoring the fact that unionists in the north need to have a look around, but they only exist as a movement because they feel threatened and isolated by everyone else. It is sad to think that even members of their own communities are refused basic civil rights, which the rest of the country enjoys, based on a policy of intransigence employed by their leaders? But unless those people are convinced they have a future within this country they will find a way to oppose everything that goes on. Waving referenda results in their face won't soften them up either.

    I haven't a bulls notion what is going to get them to sit down and cooperate, in a few weeks they are facing another election on the back of the last result being ignored. That is all they are going to do. It will take a long long time before that mess is sorted out, the last thing it needs is more trouble.

    But if the six counties gets the respect it deserves it has massive potential to succeed, in whatever form that takes. But it is not fair to ask a million people to put or shut up, even if that was all their ancestors did for the last 100 years. Two wrongs won't make it right.

    To put things in perspective this problem has actually manifested itself via a politcal power grab in Westminster, dreamt up by a cabal of upper middle class Etonians who had an axe to grind with each other and probably did too much banger at the almuni Christmas dinner in Whitehall? On the back of that Dominic Cummings managed to concoct an online strategy which convinced a country that they were better off leaving an economic trade agreement that saw itself flourish for almost 50 years. He managed to convince just over half of them that it was the right thing to do. Even the six counties disagreed with them. They are now facing an economic downturn fueled by arms dealers in the United States who have managed to hit the jackpot in the Ukraine. The Brits are actually walking headfirst into at least 2 more years of conflict down there and in the meantime we are all paying for it? These are the same assholes that have brought us Ant n Dec, the X factor and soccer.

    We live in a very sheltered media hub which has 2 national broadcasters heavily controlled and funded by the government and in the other instance by a British Entrepeneur living in the Caribbean who quite possibly fancies Kate Winslet. We are drip fed a national propaganda agenda implemented by less than a 100 journalists who either have Sunday newspaper column, TV broadcast news or fancy Tommy Bowe, I mean that by the way. For the last three months we have been cajoled into accepting that the foreign policy of a Russian dictator is any of our business and we should follow the arms dealers who are enjoying their newest global conflict and making billions and billions of Dollars. We are actually paying for that shight? Why ?

    Have a look around and see what this country really needs. Watch what the rest of the world does when the arms dealers decide they need a few quid.

    Rubert Murdoch is now 91. For anyone that does not know him he is probably one of the most influential persons in the western world. He controls an international media empire which has decided every election in the US, UK and Australia since the 1980's. He will not be around forever and I doubt any of his offspring will have the tenacity. There is going to be a massive power grab in global media that none of us have ever witnessed. Every sentence I have just typed is being monitored by a large datacenter buried under a complex in California, which is assessing this diatribe at this very second. They will share this crap I am writing with international partners in exchange for money. I am actually making money for someone I don't even know by writing this. We are not lizards, we are human beings who have evolved over centuries and are farmed by people who own things that we don't. Power is constantly being fought for and not for the first time this country will have to adapt to its' consequences with little or no influence over it. Funding Ukrainians to murder each other will not save us or them.

    We have replaced smoking in pubs with online pornography, this was under the instruction of the Insurance industry of the US who were going broke on the back of a legal system that decided that US tobacco manufacturers were fair game for a few billion quid after the US government decided that their policy of allowing the pharmaceutical industry to run riot over the health plans of every one of its' citizens in exchange for taxation to fund a domestic war in Colombia, after their movie and television industry in Hollywood managed to convince trash US citizens it was a good idea to snort narcotics off mirrors on a Saturday night whilst dancing to pop songs. That happened. In the meantime the same arms dealers who are selling arms, which we are all now paying for, to enable the conflict to continue in the Ukraine via a proxy war with Russia were discovering that Central America was fair game for a few revolutions instigated by Army generals who were going to support them and allow Ronald Reagan look like he actually had a phucking iota about what the actual phuck was going on?.... In case you are wondering he didn't btw, he was just doing whatever the arms dealers wanted, they put him in the White House for starters. They can put anyone they like in there. They murdered Bob Marlay because they felt that he was far too clever and was going to influence their entire Afro-ethnic population to examine for once and for all why they were living under a soft apartheid which compromised their future to working as a hairdresser, joining the army or hanging around a ghetto singing rap songs and shooting each other.

    The same insurance industry, which banned smoking in our pubs, now fleeces this country daily and squanders their profits on a global stock market which is fueled by the anticipation of what it might be worth in 3 months time? This is happening every day? The smoking ban has decimated our only social outlet and divided us into a lifestyle choice which amounts to staring at a screen in the corner of our living rooms watching shight dreamt up by screenwriters in the same country who harbours the same arms dealers who are pumping up the price of your electricity bill. This allows them control your decisions and influence them by explaining that smoking is bad and buying US pharmaceutical products is good. They don't want you having a laugh down at your local 4 nights a week, instead they want you back in your compartment, which you slave daily to pay for.... and watch more of their shight broadcast to that screen in the corner of your room.

    Go and vote for whoever you like, but don't let media controlled by assholes who don't have your best interests at heart. Use your mind, we are one off the best bunch of people this world has ever witnessed. We are loving, caring great people. We have a democracy that we should be respecting and most probably involving ourselves with. We need to generate these traits into improving the lives of everyone on this island, it has suffered enough. We should not let stooges in Westminster control our lives. They do not care about us and they certainly want the six counties off their backs for once and for all. But they will do it on their own terms, they always do. If they reckon they could get away for a second they would push that over the line, the trash that watches Ant n Dec and allowed Facebook to make them believe they were better off leaving a beneficial trade agreement so a cabal of Etonians could take over their futures should not be allowed win. They are responsible for what blemishes this country every day the rights of people are subjugated in the six counties. Don't let those phuckers allow this country to go back into chaos by turning their backs on the very people who believe they do care about them when they don't.

    We need to bring a more positive message to the people in the six counties. They need to be convinced that we do care about their country, voting for a border poll will never achieve that. All it will do is escalate fear and quite probably instigate more trouble which we will never see the end of and squander 30 years of hard work. Don't let that happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭BaywatchHQ


    Most IRA attacks were not deliberate attempts to kill civilians. They gave warnings before bombs, even the ones in England. Yes some bombs still killed people regardless of warnings but just imagine how many people would have been killed in the Manchester bomb if there was no warning.

    I will give an example of one bombing that a hunger strikers was involved in. The death in that bomb was a woman who was in the changing room and never heard the warning. The IRA didn't deliberately go out to kill that woman in the changing room.

    In regards to other attacks shooting soldiers or shooting down army helicopters, that isn't killing civilians. If you kill a soldier it is a casualty of war.

    I don't vote for anyone as I don't agree with Sinn Fein's liberal agenda not because of their historical connections to the IRA. It is funny how even King Charles can be civil with Sinn Fein yet the people of the Irish Republic still can't stomach them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Ridiculous revisionist nonsense that completely lacks any logic.

    If the PIRA cared about civilians they would have given adequate warnings that saved civilians. They didn't.

    They frequently claimed that the warnings were adequate but that the security forces failed. If that is true and they cared about civilians they would have improved the quality of their warnings. If that didn't work, if they really cared about civilians they would have stopped targetting them. Therefore, if the PIRA truly didn't target civilians, there would have been a maximum of two incidents where civilians were killed before the PIRA changed tactics. That simply didn't happen, they kept on targetting civilians again and again.

    By 1987 they still hadn't learned and resorted to killing harmless old men. The fact that the people of Ireland can't stomach the actions of the PIRA is a credit to them. The PIRA were a disgrace to this nation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Irish people let themselves down again.

    "Alliance Party MP Stephen Farry wrote: “More disgraceful behaviour. We are seeing a growing pattern of incidents in sectarian chants across different parts of society."

    Alliance Party voters are key in any border poll. These idiots in Dublin Airport are doing their utmost to hinder progress.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    ridiculous reviisionist nonsense that completely lacks facts and logic.

    the PIRA gave plenty of warnings when planting bombs, this is established fact, as is it established fact that the security forces ignored warnings regularly.

    the PIRA were a necessary entity that existed due to one of the most brutal and racist empires in history, and they had quite a lot of support of the irish, regardless of what you and others want to think.

    no group is able to achieve what the PIRA did without large scale support.

    SF are going to be in government north and south, the troubles are a distant memory, there are people now starting families who weren't even born when the troubles ended.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    no it's irish people celebrating being irish and celebrating their culture.

    this is a story over nothing, a storm in a tea cup.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    if britain hadn't created a sectarian statelet so as to stur crap then the IRA would never have resurged.

    yes the IRA planted bombs and all else but britain is responsible for creating the vacume in which that was able to happen.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,056 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Technically it was created jointly when Michael Collins successfully negotiated a Treaty with Lloyd George.

    When we hear about terrorists etc without people acknowledging things like Gerrymandering, internment, rigged police, rigged constituencies it is illogical. Nobody was advocating for the people and they were literally cordoned off with no rights,



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Dexter Gorgeous Cross


    I will give an example of one bombing that a hunger strikers was involved in. The death in that bomb was a woman who was in the changing room and never heard the warning. The IRA didn't deliberately go out to kill that woman in the changing room.

    I'm struggling with this statement. If someone plants a bomb, and it goes off and kills someone, its the fault of the person who planted the bomb, and no-one else. If you can't see that then I don't know where else to go to be honest.

    It's like saying someone stole a car and went joyriding. They're driving down the pavement and beeping their horn and so people jump out of the way. Someone has earphones in and doesn't hear them. They die. Who's fault is it ? If you answer that its the joyriders fault then you need to revisit your logic in your previous post.

    Tell me this, have you ever had to grab your children, run and get out of a shopping centre because a bomb has just been phoned in ? I have. It's not a whole lot of craic I can tell you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Were Kenya , Malaysia, Indonesia and Vietnam granted independence through the exercise of rights in the Atlantic Charter?



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    There was no justification for the bombings, none at all.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    a sure fire way of not killing civilians, would be to not bomb shopping centres in the first place. Bombing shopping centres is the very definition of an act of terror.

    It's like congratulating a priest for not buggering all the boys in the choir.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Maybe, we could ask those people when they come home from school.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    No but it was the British unwillingness to deal like a proclaimed liberal democracy should which caused the civil rights movement to be sidelined and gave violent men the pitch.

    Reasonable people, like Eamon McCann, talk of a lot of his friends and contemporaries signing up to PIRA after Bloody Sunday.

    Jobs, housing and fair elections is what they asked, the reaction on Bloody Sunday changed everything.

    Once that started there was no putting the genie into the bottle. It is very difficult to take control back from violent men. The Irish civil war would have went on longer only for Liam Lynch taking a bullet on the slope of Knockmealdowns in April 2023.

    People need to have trust in civil authority, once that authority turns on the people it represents it takes a long time to repair the damage.

    I say that as someone who remembers the troubles with nothing but sadness and someone who will probably never vote SF.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,289 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    literally every thing in this post is a lie.

    disgusting terrorist propaganda peddled by an organized crime gang pretending to be a political group and utilizing strictly controlled useful online idiots for try to convince young people who weren't around when they were slaughtering innocent people and covering up crimes to destroy two countries by voting them into power



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    What about stopping RUC officers and British military, you could hardly condemn that?


    Or did you expect people there to never defend themselves.



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