EX FG voters, why have you stopped supporting them?

Idbatterim · 16-10-2022 11:07am #1

AS an ex FG voter, who possibly wont even bother voting next election, as there is no option politically here, that I feel represents my views. Why wont you vote for FG again? Here are a few key reasons why I wont... Their initial appetite for change platform they ran on in 2011 or whenever that election was, was a lie and a farce. Look after the taxpayer ? Laugh out loud, you thieve FIFTY percent income tax over a pittance, that even hits the working poor's income. Infrastructure is a disgrace. Planning reform desperately needed for housing and infrastructure, still not bothered with it... I read an article yesterday, FG internal one that, that a party member leaked a bit of. Saying they should probably do something about housing if they dont want to lose more seats, this is being said in 2022 ! with a diabolical housing situation, 11 years after being in power... Beyond pathetic. The 2011 election, nearly all my friends and family voted FG, 2017 that halved roughly. The next election, it will be possibly 1 or 2. 1 or 2 from 30+ in 2011! The young here are expected to live at home forever, pay a fortune in rent or emigrate. Meanwhile a large part of the population live a far standard higher or living than they would in other european countries, paid for by these hard working, low paid, workhorses...

Why is JSA or JSB being increased, when every bloody shop has a "staff wanted" sign in the window? Total overhaul of welfare system needed, pay out, based on pay in. A proper system like other eu countries. Welfare bonus for christmas etc only if you are long term unemployed, in a country with businesses closing, because they cant get staff...

Eoinbmw · 16-10-2022 11:18am

Media politics pandering to the headlines! No real appetite for change just an appetite to hold onto their seats!

Party politics in this country is a complete farce all and I mean all participants in Dail Eireann are there to line their own pockets and have no regard for the good of the nation!

No Government will take on the civil service or reform the HSE all are sitting on their hands and are happy to do so!

Jinglejangle69 · 16-10-2022 11:25am

Letting the Green Party bring in ridiculous policies which just benefit the rich and people in social housing while the middle pay for it all.

Generally blindly following the green agenda which has shown is causing havoc with our energy situation and reliability.

All just to cling onto power.

And allowing a massive influx of undocumented immigrants into the country and spending billions while working Irish people are struggling.

CarProblem · 16-10-2022 11:48am

ex member of the party here, 2016 was the first election I did not vote for FG and haven't so much as give the party any form of preference since I last voted for its candidates in 2011.

Tbh after seeing two people close to me exposed to reliance on the public health system (one with physical health problems one with mental health problems) that should be enough to stop anyone living in a first world country voting for any party that's been in government the last 25 years. And thats before you factor in how much we spend on health and the amount of tax taken to pay for it

Many other reasons too (and some apply to parties other than FG also)

I don't vote for parties that tax incomes at marginal rates of 50% and over
I don't vote for parties that steal from my pension
I don't vote for parties that prioritise welfare recipients over workers (e.g. repeatedly raising dole by more per week than a worker on the median wage gets in a tax cut - many more examples)
IMO the cardinal sin of Irish politics is letting FF anywhere near power - FG allowed this party of incompetent, corrupt charlatans into power less than 15 years after they bankrupt the country (again)
I won't vote for a party with an untrustworthy snake and spoofing buffoon (Leo Varadkar) as leader
see previous comments in the thread about the farce that is our so called immigration policies
I won't vote for a party that allows paying ones mortgage / rent etc be optional on the basis that the rest of us will pick up the tab

I could probably continue all day tbh.

Its very perplexing why the party has alienated those that should be its staunch voter base to chase after people who never have & never will vote for the party.

Loafing Oaf · 16-10-2022 11:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058267699/ex-fg-voters-why-have-you-stopped-supporting-them

Why is JSA or JSB being increased, when every bloody shop has a "staff wanted" sign in the window?

To appeal to the floating voters that FG are competing with FF and the soft left for. Few potential FG voters are themselves long-term unemployed or will benefit from the other welfare increases the government has introduced but among the middle-class liberals that FG are targeting, it is the kiss of death to be labeled 'right wing' or 'Thatcherite'...

The key line in your OP is

there is no option politically here, that I feel represents my views.

As long as FG face no serious challenge to their right they will continue to pursue these sorts of policies on the basis that most people minded like you will continue voting for them as 'the best of a bad lot'...

CarProblem · 16-10-2022 12:03pm

"As long as FG face no serious challenge to their right they will continue to pursue these sorts of policies on the basis that most people minded like you will continue voting for them as 'the best of a bad lot'..."

But the OP says he isn't voting for FG!!! You've said this many times on this board but FG is losing votes. I do agree somewhat with that some voters want right of centre but settle for least left (I socialise and work with a lot of these types) but there are swathes of others (myself included and I'm sure other posters on this thread too) who have abandoned the party - election results and opinion polls categorically show this. So this approach has absolutely cost the party votes and seats.

Basically I'm putting my money/vote where my mouth is, when any party's candidate (not just FG) knocks on my door Ill ask them not to return until we see a more fiscally (not socially) conservative stance where workers are prioritised and not welfare recipients (and I include pensioners in this cohort).

Wanderer78 · 16-10-2022 12:08pm

i am finding this more and more, that some life long fg supporters are walking away, this is a very interesting phenomenon and understandable so, but increasing welfare makes sense on many fronts, as most is spent back into the economy almost immediately upon receivership, this benefits us all, in particular the businesses that receive this money, this was very well proven with increased covid payments. this increases whats called the velocity of the money supply, if the velocity falls below a certain level, this increases the likelihood of business failure, hence rising unemployment, and rising potential of financial sector instabilities as many households and businesses would have significant debts.

unemployment rates are actually at an all time low, which is a fantastic achievement, considering everything, including our history, unemployment occurs due to many complex reasons, particularly long term unemployment, many of these individuals would in fact have highly complex needs, which have never been truly fulfilled, and probably wont ever, so we will probably always have a base level, no matter what....

its clearly obvious the fundamental ideologies parties such as ffg have been following are starting to collapse, in regards providing us with our most critical of needs, i.e. housing, health care, infrastructure etc, but they are deeply unwilling to accept this reality, they are falling with these ideologies, and are also unwilling to accept these facts.....

Silentcorner · 16-10-2022 12:55pm

I don't know of anyone who is remotely satisfied with this Government, they performed very poorly in the 2020 election, I think that is as good as they will ever do again, there is too much anger out there regarding inflation, consequences of lock down, small businesses are being completely crushed and it won't get any better, I don't know how young people aren't out on the streets, they are being completely thrown under the bus regarding housing, opportunities. Being woke won't save Fg either, appointing McEntee or Harris as a leader will banish them altogether.

I feel completely deflated by the leadership of Varadkar. This cabinet is the most useless of my entire life...they literally handed the country over to Health bureaucrats from the most dysfunctional health service in the EU.

KaneToad · 16-10-2022 1:01pm

This threads always attract the extreme views and categorisation of the governing/opposition parties (delete as appropriate).

The truth is that most Irish politicial parties are centrist. And most Irish voters are centrist.

Silentcorner · 16-10-2022 1:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751263#Comment_119751263

If most Irish people are centrists, which I agree with by the way, then why are the traditional political parties (FF, Fg and Labour) all suffering. Maybe they have left the centre so to speak.

Wanderer78 · 16-10-2022 1:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751267#Comment_119751267

theyve all scattered, picking bits from the left and the right, and its all falling to pieces for them, but this is also happening in most other countries

Ubbquittious · 16-10-2022 1:23pm

They LIED in 2011 saying they would not bring in property tax. As soon as they had a nice juicy 5-year mandate they brought it in anyway. Pack of pricks. I utterly despise them to this day because of it

Murph85 · 16-10-2022 4:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751076#Comment_119751076

Good analysis. I understand totally the vote for them as best of a bad lot. That wont force change though... it's a waste of time and we would be still condoning the bs by voting for them. A mass spoiling of votes would be a fantastic outcome in my opinion

....

Murph85 · 16-10-2022 5:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751331#Comment_119751331

Lpt bring in as pittance. They could scrap it no bother. It is abused and set at a rate that makes no sense to collect. I bet its total is a fraction of the welfare increase this budget.. scrap it and replace it with a proper tax on vacant property and land... big vote winner. Not a vote winner.. increasing handouts to people who never vote for you and despise you. Alienating those who used to vote for you, including the working poor... FG pulled some con job...

Getting rid of vatadkar, claiming the party has strayed too far from its manifesto, bring in a proper hard line leader to end this welfare before workers, and actually doing it, could win back some support...

Loafing Oaf · 16-10-2022 7:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119751113#Comment_119751113

Well (a) I would contend that OP is very much an outlier among right-leaning and centrist voters. Many might feel similar but will end up voting FG (or FF) on the least worst principles.

and (b) he says he is not switching his vote but opting out, which is a draw rather than a defeat in electoral terms. FG strategists would likely say the number of abstainers like him would be outweighed by the losses they would suffer to FF, Greens, Lab etc. if they adopted more overtly right-wing policies.

election results and opinion polls categorically show this. So this approach has absolutely cost the party votes and seats.

Well they have been in power for over a decade. The likelihood is they would be losing support no matter what they were doing, as we can see with the Tories across the water. And where are these voters supposedly seeking a fiscally conservative alternative to FG going? Do they think they are going to get it from SF?

Cluedo Monopoly · 16-10-2022 7:56pm

The FG New Politics document in 2011.

They lied. As corrupt as FF. Zero vision or integrity.

Murph85 · 16-10-2022 8:28pm

A new party, that promised and delivered what FG said they would in 2011. With a credible leader, would win 15% plus of the vote in my opinion and thus, be hugely influential in potential next government formation. Which as of now, will be a SF/FF coalition in my opinion...

blanch152 · 16-10-2022 11:09pm

Fine Gael got 20.9% in the 2020 general election, the opinion poll today, when the country has been through Covid, Brexit and Ukraine crises is at 21%.

This thread is a nonsense in that context, FG voters are sticking with their party.

Looking at that opinion poll, my money is still on the only two possible options, the return of this government or FF/SF, the same choices that we had after the last election. Nothing has changed.

Loafing Oaf · 17-10-2022 12:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119752396#Comment_119752396

Getting rid of vatadkar, claiming the party has strayed too far from its manifesto, bring in a proper hard line leader to end this welfare before workers, and actually doing it, could win back some support...

This stuff just seems like shouting into the void to me. FG themselves clearly don't currently share your analysis, and I see little reason to think they will adopt it in the future. I also have no idea who this 'proper hard line leader' might be. None of the current contenders (according to the bookies) have been carving out any sort of right-wing profile in the way Varadkar himself (ambiguously) did when he was a rising star in the party...

road_high · 17-10-2022 12:29am

They’re far too left wing and pro welfare state. They look after everyone bar those that make an effort to better themselves. The welfare classes are so brainwashed by SF et al propaganda that they’re so blind to see the reality that FG are the ones that actually best represent their “interests” now.

road_high · 17-10-2022 12:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754105#Comment_119754105

Abysmal figures for FG. Those issues were all seen as FG trump cards- the fact they haven’t budged from the dismal 2020 election tells you all you need to know. FG under Varadkar are moribund

blanch152 · 17-10-2022 12:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754322#Comment_119754322

The thread is asking why FG voters have stopped supporting them, I am pointing out that the thread is over two years out of date because FG are holding their vote. You don't address that.

17-10-2022 6:26am

In no particular order I stopped supporting FG in 2020 for the following reasons (having been a FG supporter since the days of John Bruton):

Prioritizing welfare recipients over working people
Taxes and social charges are too high (especially capital gains, USC, and income tax)
The lack of a law-and-order ethos enforced by the baton and handcuffs
Cowardice (i.e. going along with mandatory hotel quarantine and draconian lockdowns for far too long during Covid)
Failure to limit immigration (the major factor in the housing crisis)
The repeated appointment of inexperienced young people to high office - McEntee, Harris, et al

I have now settled on being either a non-voter, or someone who votes for the occasional independent.

F34 · 17-10-2022 6:55am

I stopped after 2011 I genuinely thought we would see massive political change as well as reform of our public sector and got absolutely nothing like it. In fact in my eyes they took the FF playbook and ran with it.

pgj2015 · 17-10-2022 8:43am

I don't like Leo anymore. Will be giving my vote to Fianna Fail next election, Michael Martin is doing a great job in my opinion.

ELM327 · 17-10-2022 9:30am

I'm very much still an FG supporter. And, unless and until there is a party further to the right fiscally - while maintaining a social left like FG - I will continue to do so. The polls dont show voters abandoning FG at all. The tax band increase will help middle ireland, the first party to do anything in that area for a long time. Middle Ireland and the motorist are two groups that are looked at as a cash cow to fund the lazy idle bloated welfare class.

There arent any other credible options. Who else would you prefer, SFFF? A coalition between terrorists and the gombeens that bankrupted us? Don't make me laugh.

17-10-2022 9:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754487#Comment_119754487

Agree, well summed up.

For me FG did a great job of confirming, voting is pointless. Finished. Deregistered vote.

Packrat · 17-10-2022 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754802#Comment_119754802

I actually agree with your general point about there being no alternative (which I would vote for if it existed) however pushing the old "terrorist" line won't be enough to stop SF anymore. Who amongst their current TDs is a Terrorist?

That's the kind of outdated thinking which has FG where it is.

Again, before I get called a Shinner-bot I'm not going to vote for them because their policies are just a worse version of the current shower.

But the whole "terrorist" thing is a beaten docket.

Loafing Oaf · 17-10-2022 10:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755056#Comment_119755056

Dessie Ellis was certainly a big noise in the 'armed struggle' back in the day. Although I'd be surpised if he stands at the next GE...

ELM327 · 17-10-2022 10:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755056#Comment_119755056

I mean it's not that long ago that they were a party of convicts. Famously even with links to murderers. Even most recent elections showed problematic individuals that were not condemned by the party

You can't claim this is a great look either.

Sinn Féin having ‘chilling’ effect on Ireland’s democracy, says taoiseach | Ireland | The Guardian

This list from 15 years ago is interesting reading.

Who in Sinn Féin was IRA? | Magill

griffin100 · 17-10-2022 11:40am

What's the alternative though? Genuine question!! As a relatively well paid working person who has a mortgage to pay, kids to raise and an older kid in College struggling with costs who best represents me and my concerns? Despite FG's short comings I'l probably still reluctantly vote for them (or abstain)

I can't vote FF having lived through their boom bust government and them bankrupting the state a decade ago......something they did with the Greens which is often forgotten.

The Greens are far too removed from reality to consider voting for.

Labour back in the day may have been an option, but not now. They are very much a party of the woke brigade and like the Greens removed from reality.

Obviously I can't vote for any of the parties of the Left, I can't afford to pay any more of my hard earned salary towards free houses and five star social welfare (hyperbole on my part but you get the picture!!)

I've posted elsewhere that I can never vote for SF due to their past activities (but that's an age thing with me) and their populist ill thought out agendas.

I fully expect SF / FF as the next Government, I don't think FF will go back in with FG. That said it could be no worse than the current arrangement, but for someone like me it could be a lot worse.

I was a huge fan of Leo when he first became party leader, but he's been a big disappointment on so many levels (Covid aside which I think was handled pretty well on the whole). He's all soundbite with little substance. You then have the elevation of pure political animals with little knowledge like Harris and McEntee to cabinet. I'd like to see Pascal Donohoe have a stab at being leader but I don't think that will happen. I've become really disillusioned with the options available to me and I think this country is heading for some difficult years.

EX FG voters, why have you stopped supporting them?

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