EX FG voters, why have you stopped supporting them?

"And where are these voters supposedly seeking a fiscally conservative alternative to FG going? Do they think they are going to get it from SF?"

I most certainly do not - but maybe a term for SF in government would result in a right left divide emerging? Maybe not

But for me its put up or shut up. The only way a sensible (IMO of course, as in my definition of sensible. Might not align with others) party emerges is if people demand it, thats what I'll do. I might be pissing in the wind. Maybe there's not enough people willing to put up or shut up. maybe there's not enough people who want some sensible fiscal policies. Who knows? I can only control where my own vote goes. I want change - that won't be achieved by voting for parties that refuse to change anything.

no question workers have been getting screwed over, but this has been occurring for decades now, long before this current government, living on welfare isnt all what its cracked up to be, ask anyone on it, or better again, try it!

again, our taxes are actually pretty much on par with other oecd nations, but we urgently need to increase taxation on the accumulation of wealth, particular in relation to the value of assets such as property, as this is starting to cause a wealth divide amongst current asset owners, primarily older generations, and non asset owners, primarily younger generations...

again, on law and order, we re also doing fairly average here to, but with the rising wealth gap, i.e. wealth inequality, expect this to rise, as this is generally a common outcome of so....

'cowardice'! the government actually done very well during covid, certainly when you compare us to our nearest neighbors, i.e. the us and the uk!

our housing issues were noted by respected commentators for well over a decade now, reasoning, the outsourcing of construction to the private sectors such as the fire sectors, which of course lead to the major crash of 08, and the continual polices to do so, i.e. no immigration hasnt caused this problem, but it is exasperating it!

• An open door policy on asylum seekers and immigration - adding massively to the huge cohort of people demanding handouts. Not to mention the massive future social problems that await.
• Repeated improvements to social welfare acting as a disincentive for many to re-enter the workplace.
• Allowing the housing market to deteriorate without intervention - not intervention in the form of social housing, but ensuring that people who are trying to better themselves have places to live. People going to university should be able to find accomodation. People working hard in their jobs should be able to afford housing. On that point, allowing the conversation around housing to be derailed into a social housing controversy.
• Allowing the media to dictate policy in the cases of Mandatory Hotel Quarantine which was an absolutely absurd waste of time.
• Allowing bottom of the barrel idiots like McEntee free reign to implement stupid policies for her social media likes.
• Widening schemes such as the medical card to encompass more people, clogging up facilities with chancers who coughed once 4 days ago so decide they need a check up (because they have nothing better to do anyway), while people working hard don't bother going to the doctor now because of the colossal wait times.
• Making travellers a distinct ethnic group within the state, thereby encouraging their disgusting behaviours to continue with no repercussions.
• Allowing the Green Party to dictate policy with completely nonsensical sh*te, which will have disastrous consequences, purely to keep hold of power.

That's not going to happen.

Micheal Martin pushed thru legislation in 2011 (1st thing he did in opposition) regarding the funding of parties, it was presented as a move to "clean up" politics after the corrupt leadership of FF Ahern etc, it also meant that the likelihood of a new political movement being able to get off the ground was next to impossible...which of course, was the real purpose of the legislation.

It is no coincidence that the now largest party in the State is the only party with the financial means to maintain and sustain a political presence across the countries constituencies.

Some recent FG TD legends.........

Dara Murphy (please pay back the fraudulent expenses)

Alan Farrell (insurance fraud - somehow still a TD!?)

Maria Bailey

Josepha Madigan (see above)

Michelle Mulherrins (had constituents in Kenya)

Crony Coveney

Leaky Leo

Tayto McEntee

and there is a list of dodgy councillors a mile long.

Top of the list - Hugh McElvaney - show me the money!

New Politics.

Can't speak for others but absolutely incorrect wrt me

I come from a staunch FF family, one of the many reasons I've never voted FF in my life (never given a FF candidate so much as a preference) is the cohort of chancers and charlatans that has inhabited the party. I would apply this kind of logic to any party

At the last GE I I voted for an autistic or eccentric man who ran as an independent (he was a monarchist or whatever, and I might even note if Ireland wanted a gay civil partnered head of state, the Jacobite pretender, the Duke of Bavaria fits the bill😁 and his partner won't spout Russian propaganda points), and had usually voted FG, with ever growing reluctance. The main parties are confidence tricksters of one sort or another and those who are true believers like the Greens have done such damage (thank them for the excess of small diesels thanks to an unwise tax change while palling with FF. FF should be proscribed for the damage it has done over the decades. PBP and co. draw their politics from the English and somewhat anti-Irish Socialist Workers Party and don't even deserve the sobriquet or tag of populist, which they are. I would say that if someone voted for a certain party of property from the north and they implemented their policies as promised, there wouldn't be just mass emigration but a veritable refugee crisis, but seriously the levels of mass immigration are just utterly insane and is a major factor driving absurd rents. An anti-immigration accelerationist could vote for that crew from the north whose policies are a reverse of their name and founder. The overall direction of the country not remotely sustainable and all the parties offer nothing, but slight variations on what doesn't work.

Basically FG are now another pro bureaucrat centre left party like FF, differing only really in its traditions.

The HSE (made up of already bad Health Boards no bank account Bertie stuck together) is a disaster of waste and bad service, quangos waste billions and won't shut up, and this country has a not particularly large workforce working for a population largely or wholly dependent on taxpayer transfers. Here endeth my rant. 😎

"Reading through this thread is seems like there is a large PDs-shaped hole in the political spectrum."

My opinion (be it representative of a PD-shaped hole or not) is that many people feel that if you work and pay tax in this country there is not a single party that represents one's interest. Play by the rules and all you get in return is a bill to pay for those who don't play by the rules. Dole increases by more than the tax cut a worker on 30k gets, housing debate is often centered on social housing, forgetting the plight of those that pay their own way etc. etc. etc.

There's obviously a bit of selection bias on show in this thread as well as it specifically asked why ex FG voters had deserted the party.

Is this 'sleaze' massively relevant to this thread though, i.e. a major factor in FG's loss of support?

I would argue right-leaning voters, if they were broadly happy with FG's policy platform, would be willing to hold their nose about that stuff as they have no other credible option.

As for left-leaning ones, well a lot of them climbed on the FG bandwagon in 2011 but were they ever going to stick with them over the long haul, irrespective of how they were performing in government?

I was actively involved in politics and a former member of both FF as a teenager and FG up until last year. I will never again in my entire life vote for either party. This Govt of 2020 forward has been the worst Govt we have ever seen, making the days of Haughey and Bertie look good.

Reasons why?

• Covid lockdowns, Garda harrasing people, mandatory mask wearing, I resigned from FG the day Mandatory Hotel Quaratine was implemented and I got stranded abroad as a result.
• Housing Crisis, No form of social housing, but ensuring that people who are trying to better themselves have places to live. The working poor are destroyed, you should not get access to Social Housing or HAP etc unless you have a minimum amount of PRSI contribs in, reward those who help themselves and try contribute to society. Those who refuse to engage or work deserve nothing. Fresh off the plane economic migrant scammers get social housing in a smack in the face to taxpayers.
• Helen McEntee, a disgrace, the worst politician in the Dail, her hate speech legislation is only designed to gag anyone with genuine concerns and brand anyone who dissents as a racist and homophobe or transphobe. She is a dictator and lets real criminals away with it.
• Crime, at least 5,000 new prison places needed, get rid of the judges. Bring in proper sentences.
• Healthcare - what Healthcare? Trade Unions wrecked the HSE like all public and civil service.
• Infrastructure, no regional rail, no Dublin Metro, No Airport link - North West forgotten.
• Green Party - Taking these mentally deranged people into Govt was a major mistake.
• Immigration - Its out of control, real genuine hard working people get screwed by the system and yet absolute scum criminals get welcomed in. We need to stop inward migration immediately until such time as the house supply catches up. All English schools are visa factories for the Brazilians, end the ability to work and study for a few years until housing is built. The Ukrainians get far too much welfare, several hundred per week plus bed and board, some are working and living rent free in hotels, again a joke. Asylum Seekers (scammers) get around €30/week, the Ukrainians need to get this. Genuine refugees will stay on and the Ukrainian economic migrants will either work or leave. We cannot house the world. A man from Nigeria on €30/week and a man from Kyiv on €200 is ridiculous, there is no war in Nigeria so that asylum claim should be denied and those deported. Paying the Ukrainians huge money plus housing them is insane, no wonder they keep coming. As this is like Social housing contributions are needed back now.
• Landlords/Tenancy: No protection for landlords, the whole thing is designed to drive small investors out and a bad tenant can mean 2 years of hell and tens of thousands in legal fees.

Some of my reasons above, I am a small landlord now exiting the market since I am apparently the bad guy. Between 40% tax and everything else I'll keep the house for when I'm down home where it is based. I derived around 20% of my income from that house. There is a housing shortage caused by open doors immigration and govt corruption. I would consider myself as a PD type conservative who voted and campaigned for Fine Gael, FG now are not the same party of 12 years ago, they are a liberal woke mob of absolute cretins who are actively working and plotting against the people, both FF and FG now I consider to have committed multiple acts of treason and are the enemy of the people.

I emphatise with the working poor, students and anyone trying to do the right thing, we have become a sick welfare state where crime pays and your better off stay in bed and draw welfare. Mental illness is a handy copout for wrong doing when the genuinely mentally ill get no support. I look at Sinn Fein like this, I will vote for them because they deserve a chance and unlike the current lot they are not enemies of the people, they came from the tradition of willing to die for what they believe in up North. Sinn Fein cannot make things any worse and even a bad SF Govt would be far better than this shower as they would not actively be working against people. Like a stopped clock they will be right at least twice per day. FG and FF need an electoral wipeout.

The idea that "Sinn Fein cannot make things any worse and even a bad SF Govt would be far better than this shower" was emphatically disproved by Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng. Things could be an awful lot worse with a different government.

The words for that are cognitive dissonance.