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Property maintenance & upkeep

  • 15-10-2022 12:11pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 853 ✭✭✭


    Hi, just wondering if someone could point me in the direction of a list of property maintenance & upkeep with reference to a timescale (I hope that makes sense)

    In property for 10 years; LL has never painted property,we've been touching up paintwork for 9 years. Decking is rotten (4 foot drop under in). Couches are as flat as a pancake at this stage. And that's just want I can think of off the top of my head.

    Tumble drier packed in last week, we rang LLs agent & got an email stating "By law a landlord does not have to provide a drier. Regulations require private landlords to provide tennants with access to a washing machine and access to a dryer (if there is no access to a yard)" We have a garden so my question on point two is if it was listed with Washer & Drier, albeit 10 years ago, do they have to maintain it.

    Obviously I'd love to write back with 'By law a landlord does have to X, Y & X but I need to know where to access that information.

    Thanks in advance.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,071 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Was the dryer listed on the inventory part of the contract?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 853 ✭✭✭Seanieke


    No, there are no white goods listed on the inventory, just had a look there.

    Only furniture.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,071 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Is the decking rotten enough that it's a safety hazard and hence unusable as a drying facility?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 853 ✭✭✭Seanieke


    It's definitely a safety hazard, there's holes in it, but you can do down the side of the house to access the garden also.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It’s probably in the LL’s best interest to take the opportunity, while it is available, to terminate the tenancy and sell the property.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    By this stage your rent is well below market rent so it is best be quiet or you might provoke a sale.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    I'd guess under your contract that the landlord is responsible for maintenance. In other words, if he provided an appliance, surely he is responsible for repairing it. From another point of view - do you think he would charge you for a new tumble drier if you broke it (as oppose to it wearing out)? Chances are he'll try to withold part of your deposit for it as it is.

    Regarding the decking, if it's dangerous it should be repaired/removed/replaced. Do you have an accident-prone friend? Invite them over ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    I didn't see where the OP said that, so there is no way you could possibly know. You are really unhelpful, ignorant even. Even if the landlord sold the property, do you thinke he'd be able to offload it without painting the house and repairing the decking?

    What a completely unhelpful comment. It makes you sound as though you approve of a landlord who takes no interest in the upkeep of his property. You seem the sort of person who gets landlords a bad name.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    If LL was decent they would replace what needs replacing. Decking in particular, you would imagine they would want to keep in good repair. I know I would. Although it could just be the standard response from the EA. You get nothing unless you kick up a fuss and they actually have to contact the LL who may be mortified.

    For the info you need, contact citizens info and/or RTB, don't go by what you see online.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,839 ✭✭✭endofrainbow


    Sometimes the Agents don't pass on information to the landlords.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    If the op has been in the property for 10 years and it is in an RPZ the rent has not increased in line with market rents and there are likely no available properties in the area. people can stand on their rights but in a situation like at present, so can landlords.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Actually I think it is helpful.

    Unless you live under a rock, you know that LLs are selling up at an alarming rate due to proposed changes in the legislation and the current price of property. I myself am considering giving tenants in three properties notice, and just selling up. Do you know what would make that decision a whole lot easier? If I have to invest in repairs, and the tenants pissing me off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    Luckily enough I don't have to rent these days. The last part of your post is exactly the kind of attitude that makes me very, very happy about that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The proposed ban on evictions and the probability of SF being in government after the next election make the appeal for LLs to sell sooner rather than later irresistible. The data relating to that is there for you to see. I was happy to wait and sell when tenants like yourself left of your own volition, but now I think, why wait?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    If I have to invest in repairs, and the tenants pissing me off.

    O kaayy. So from the juxtaposition of those two comments, I understand that if a tenant wants to live in a properly kept up house, and they mention this to you, you consider that they are píssing you off?

    I think the sooner you sell up the better, for your tenants' sake. I've had some bad landlords in my time, but none as bad as this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    The OP hasn't said that they live in a RPZ. So at present you are jumping to conclusions.

    Any comment to make about the LL not carrying out repairs to the decking to the extent that it is dangerous?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’m not sure if my point can be made any simpler or clearer for you, but I’ll have a go.

    LLs no longer need a reason to leave the sector, legislation, high property prices and the calamitous prospect of either a short or long term ban on evictions have seen to that. Faced with the prospect of having to invest their own money, at a time of rising living costs and mortgage rates would just be another added incentive to terminate a lease and sell up.

    Sometimes common sense should prevail. Personally I would replace the drier, they are pretty cheap. But would I spend a lot of money today to repair/refurbish? No, it would be an opportune time to call it a day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    No clearer, but put in a slightly less negative way.

    However, if you want to sell, you'll have to paint the house (this house hasn't been painted in 10 years apparently) repair or remove the decking assuming it is in a dangerous state as mentioned above. Neither of these will get you a better price than the market average, while not doing them will ensure a lower than market price (unless you sell to a REIT which is always a possibility). Knowing that the LL has owned the house for 10 years or more means that he will make a good profit on his investment, above and beyond the rent he has already squeezed out of it. But you'd also wonder where he'd get as good a return on his money as he has been getting up to now.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Again, you are seeing the tree in front of you, and missing the huge forest behind it. The cost of something like decking, or painting for that matter is not the reason for selling, it may just be the tipping point. The well publicised reasons why LLs are leaving the sector at a time of record rental rates are the huge forest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    O kaayy. So from the juxtaposition of those two comments, I understand that if a tenant wants to live in a properly kept up house, and they mention this to you, you consider that they are píssing you off?

    That's certainly how it came across. Imagine asking your LL to repair something and getting a response implying you're pissing the LL off so maybe it's time to sell up. So passive-aggressive.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The O/p hasn't denied being in an RPZ. If he is not in an RPZ he is paying a small rent anyway. I never had decking in my life and I have managed just fine. The o/p doesn't need decking. He should be glad he has an affordable roof over his head, unlike the 11,000 homeless in ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,184 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I have significant concerns about the sincerity of your posting on here. Do not post in this thread again and take this as a note to improve the quality of your posts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    I hear you OP. But its an impossible situation at the moment. Your landlord might want to repair all these things but they might not be in a position to. Have a word with them and ask them why they arent repairing them yet or if they have a timeline. Might be worth finding out if they are going to stay a landlord too.

    We have similar work to take care of in a rental but here is our situation.

    We have a tenant who is leaving now anyway, but about 6 months ago they gave us a list of things that need repairing. We had our own list anyway but hadnt got the money together to start. We would love to repair most of them but there is just no way to get the costs back from the rent. Its already below market rate.

    We were thinking of doing these things up when its empty and re-letting but we have just decided that its sinking money into a pit with no way to recover it and it will just get worse. Now to be fair to us, if i was living with that apartment i could live with nearly all those things for a few more years myself and tip away at them as i got time and money for them, but i understand people want rentals in top condition.

    At the top of the list were these, which were all new about 4 years ago

    There are lots of other things that are small but i wont mention them here. And none of this damage was contributed to by the current tenant. Previous ones however ...

    New wooden floor in the sitting room. The floor is in bits. Its like someone dragged a combine harvester over it.

    New tiles on the bathroom walls where the water has splashed up to the top of the wall and been running down behind the tiles at the back.

    Sink hanging off the wall.

    Cooker hood stopped working.

    One ring on the hob not working.

    Whole place needs painting.

    Glass cracked in the front door.

    Washing machine door is wobbling and will probably just fall off soon.

    New microwave needed.

    Taps seem to be bent and constantly dripping in the kitchen and bathroom sinks.

    2 rads hanging off the walls

    Front gate has fallen off.

    Kitchen window is warped at the bottom and cracked.

    Theres a hole in the bedroom door and one in the wall.

    Vents are blocked up.

    Toilet handle is broken.

    Knobs are all falling off the cooker.

    The hall floor needs to come out and be redone. There something like oil all over it and soaked in.

    Fitted wardrobes need to be replaced.

    All sorts of furniture needs to be replaced.


    The list goes on and on.

    Theres at least €10k worth of work top be done in it.

    But the gist of what im trying to say is that sometimes its just not worth putting good money after bad if you cant recover that money. Add that to the whole legislation situation and the fact that we seem to be getting less and less rights to control our own property, and you just gotta get out while you can.

    Let me just add before the hate starts, as it surely will, this place was totally done up with new furniture flooring and appliances 4 and a half years ago. It was like a show home. 2 bad tenants later and one good tenant, this is where we are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Sounds like the previous tenants weren't the most careful but your current tenant is paying rent and imo, those maintenance issues should have been sorted before the property was re-let whether the rent is below market value or at the current high rates. I have a lot of sympathy for landlords who get stung by bad tenants and people are desperate to find rentals now, but that list of repairs means the property wouldn't pass an inspection and some could be dangerous. It sounds like a lot of money to fix what seems like fairly straighforward stuff. What size is the property?

    Btw, there is no requirement to provide furniture, the regulations only specify kitchen white goods. There are lots of renters who would like an unfurnished property.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It would be worth asking the agent for the landlords details, send the agent and landlord an e-mail detailing the issues at the property that could result in an injury.

    There is a possibility that the agent is being paid by the landlord to maintain the property if they feel you will try and contact the landlord directly it might get them moving. If the landlord thinks there is a possibility of a future claim it might get them moving.

    The outcome may vary though, the landlord may have no obligation to replace the items unless specified in the lease they may decide to just remove the dryer and decking. Some dryers are relatively inexpensive so you could buy one and take it with you when you leave or sell it on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden



    You are right we should have just sold it rather than re-let if we couldnt afford to fix everything again only 4 years after spending 9k on the place. We are kicking ourselves and praying now we dont get caught by some other new legislation coming along. And its not even just the cost of things nowadays. Its getting someone to do it. By the time you got everything done there would probably be some new legislation to whip you with. Nobody wants to rent a property with no furniture though. Im sure every landlord would love that but nobody wants it.

    It was a huge mistake renting it again last time. Should have sold it then. We actually werent going to rent it the last time at all. We were just going to clean it up and sell it. The current tenants previous landlord is a friend of mine and he called my wife and asked could she take them to see it. He was selling up and they hadnt found anywhere yet. My wife showed them the property to explain that there was just too much for us to do and why they couldnt have it and there were tears and begging and the woman was pregnant, so when she came home the decision had been made that they were getting the place as they were moving back to their home country in 6 months and were homeless. So the agreement was that they could have it for the 6 months as long as i could tip away and fix things up in my own time as we hadnt got the money to get someone else to do it. Through events that were no fault of their own they ended up having to stay a bit longer but are still going home.

    Im sorry we ever rented the place out tbh.

    We ended up on low rent because we had good tenants in there for years and gave them a break on the rent. Then we got stuck on that rent after that.

    Then a few more good tenants and a couple of bad ones and then 2 particularly bad ones in a row had broken our will to be landlords. The last tenants we probably should never let into the place tbh but we were doing them and our friend a favor while they were getting their affairs in order to go home and they are nice people. They even had numerous friends of theirs calling us to take the place when they are gone, but its definitely being sold now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭DFB-D


    You could try fixing some of the list yourself. Small things like this, I'd normally do myself, but I have a handyman as well when I need help. Imagine paying a plumber to replace a toilet handle?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden



    If I was to give you the list of things I have fixed myself it would be 10 times as long. And yes I am fixing them myself as I go. Actually as I type, I have the tiles in the van to tile the bathroom the next time I get a chance to go out there :) Brought the taps with me the last time to replace when I was changing the thermostat in the immersion, but lo and behold no valve on the taps behind the sinks so thats a job for a plumber now. 2 of them havent bothered turning up so far. Used to have a handyman to do jobs I could'nt do but he doesnt do it anymore. More money on the sites for him full time now.

    Anyway handy as I am, it costs a lot of money and time and those things just arent so plentiful that they are worth it. The place is being sold. But this thread isnt about my situation. I was just pointing out for the OP that things are not so easily done these days and to speak to their landlord about prioritizing whats to be done. But I would guess their landlord is the same as myself. Did a cost benefit and said they will leave it and sell it as is. When you can recover the outlay then you have no incentive to spend the money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭DFB-D




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Downbythegarden says

    "Nobody wants to rent a property with no furniture though. Im sure every landlord would love that but nobody wants it".

    Why is that?

    There must be room for both furnished and unfurnished in the market. There are landlords who are unhappy with extra rules and an annual rtb charge, yet they spend thousands to fit-out or refurbish a rental when that's not something they are obliged to do. Supplying stuff like decking, sofas, beds, drawer chests, wood floors, window coverings, light fittings etc is not required. Everyone agrees that rentals should comply with standards - structurally safe, certs for electrics, gas, etc, and kitchen/bathroom requirements, but it's strange that landlords don't provide unfurnished as it's less expensive and when a tenant leaves, the only work should be minor repairs, painting, and new white goods. It might suit renters as well to have a cheaper rental and have their own sofas, beds and soft furnishings to their own taste that they can take away if they leave. If the legislation only specifies white goods then why are landlords still supplying fully furnished properties? I don't understand it tbh.

    Leave the providers of high end fully furnished places with gyms and resident caretakers etc to charge huge rents to people who can afford it, but some landlords might prefer to provide unfurnished properties especailly if they are locked into 'below market rent'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    You have a bad agent or a bad landlord. Any landlord who doesn't want to spend a dime on a 10-year tenant is the worst kind of landlord.

    If you are prepared to replace your own white goods and take them with you, do so. Do the thing that suits your own situation, and worry less about entitlements because clearly enforcing entitlements may not be the best road for your current arrangement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭meijin


    Because there is no security of tenancy.

    Which tenant wants to buy furniture, only for LL to "change their mind" a year later, and wants the house back, or sell it, or whatever other excuse they give?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,832 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    A lot of talk and no action. Either stop moaning about it or actually sell up. It's a free market.

    Don't be on here with the poor mouth pretending you might sell up. Nobody cares whether you own the house or someone else owns it. It isn't going to be the end of humanity if another person (one who can manage/cope) buys it from you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭dennyk


    There will be a few tenants who might prefer an unfurnished property, but the issue is that there are very few unfurnished rentals here, which means that (a) tenants coming from another furnished rental are not going to have their own larger furniture and will have to buy furniture, which is a significant extra expense on top of the usual costs of moving house, and (b) when the landlord of their unfurnished place decides to turf them out in a couple years to sell the place, now they have a bunch of large furniture that won't fit in any furnished places, meaning they'll have to limit themselves to unfurnished rentals, or try to convince their next landlord to move the provided rental furniture into storage somewhere (which most landlords won't do), or pay extra for storage somewhere to put the landlord's furniture (or their own furniture) themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,584 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    No good deed in the Irish residential tenancy sector goes unpunished.

    Slava Ukrainii



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