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Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "Far more than anyone else."

    Was anyone else subjected to the same scrutiny as Bailey?

    Leo Bolger ; Knew Sophie, did work on her house, had horses on Alfie's field, so still coming and going around the place, the only access to his horses was along the back of Sophie's house close to her back door, happened to remember Alfie introducing Bailey to Sophie....

    Wolney; no alibi for the night, history of domestic violence, lived closer to Sophie than Bailey, headed back to Germany shortly after the murder.

    The "Man from Marseilles"; also lived closer to Sophie, knew Sophie and his conversation when he met her was inappropriate and upset her, knew where she lived- he had viewed the house she eventually bought. Died by suicide shortly after the murder.

    The Man in the Van; Marie Farrell's car-share around the locality on the night of the murder, never found.

    Alfie Lyons; Lived next door, heard nothing that night, had disputes with Sophie about the shed and the gate and also about drainage causing problems along the rear of Sophie's house.

    Boundary issues with local farmers; she had about 16 acres spread around the locality in 9 different lots, including commonage.

    Both French ex-husbands and lover.

    and so on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,831 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    They couldnt really scrutinise the French angles.

    I think it is one of the reasons they focused on the locality and that led them to Bailey so much.

    The Guards say they believed Marie Farrell. Enough said.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    The Guards say they believed Marie Farrell. Enough said.

    Of course they 'believed' Marie Farrell wasn't she telling their own story.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I think Wolney from Germany also committed suicide back in Germany. There was always talk that he confessed having done "something terrible" but never stating what.

    There was also talk of him having a brief affair with Sophie, but nothing was ever confirmed on this. Possibly another rumor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,364 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    But the only place I'm hearing about any of the people you list is here.

    No one, journalist, film maker etc has made a case big enough to put any of them on the same level as Bailey.

    The Gardai likely never made a case big enough for them to be on the same level as Bailey either because there was nothing to make a case out of.

    And as for the "man in the van" with Farrell.

    If you are willing to believe that she had a man in the van then you have to be willing to believe she saw Bailey.

    You can't pick and choose what you believe of her evidence just to suit your narrative.

    I personally don't believe any of it.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Wolney gave hair and brown boots to Garda no forensic

    Several suspects were investigated. Bailey threw up flags the others didn't



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    In fairness she wasn`t telling a Garda invented story. She may well have been pressurized to identify the man as Bailey but there were firm grounds for believing the first two sightings were Bailey. The Kealfada story was first told to Gardaí by the anonymous Fiona. They even went on Crimeline asking for her to come forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    The question was; “was anyone else subjected to the same scrutiny as Bailey” not whether you or I believe Marie Farrell or Alfie Lyon’s or anyone else.

    Of course newspapers, books, films, podcasts etc. did not make a case for anyone other than Bailey.

    They we’re fed a diet of Bailey from the start, as the villain he fitted the part perfectly and was the gift that kept on giving for 25 years.

    Of Marie Farrell you said;

    “You can't pick and choose what you believe of her evidence just to suit your narrative.

    I personally don't believe any of it.”

    So you chose to believe none of it. Fair enough. I chose to believe she saw a man outside her shop on Saturday, but I believe that man was not Ian Bailey. I believe she may have seen Bailey on Airhill on Sunday.The Kealfada sighting I believe was concocted with the “urging” of the Gardai.

    The only narrative I’ve got here is, I think the police got it wrong with their irrational fixation on Bailey to the exclusion of other suspects too early.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Did “Fiona” say she saw Bailey on Kealfada bridge?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    On her first call from a public phone she said she saw a man at kealfada bridge



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Do you mean on the bridge specifically or just the general area of the bridge? Anyway, either way I`m not sure. As Marie, she didn`t have him on the bridge in her statement. He had walked past the road up to Sophie`s house in the direction of Goleen. I think the Crimeline appeal was shown on one of the docs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    She didn’t say it was Bailey.

    O k maybe she didn’t know Bailey on 11th Jan- highly unlikely. But nor did she say it was the same man she saw twice previously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit



    I don`t see how the Kealfada sighting could have been "concocted with the urging of the Gardaí". If that was true and they did it to implicate Bailey, then they surely wouldn`t have had him walking towards Goleen.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    On her first call she said a man at kealfada near Sylvia O'Connell shop 


    Later she said she saw a man outside her shop and on the road near airhill who turned out to be IB. The sighting at her shop and airhill were the same man she said



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    She made the statement about the shop and Airhill sightings on the 27th of December, which was well before she contacted Gardaí as Fiona. The other thing about the Kealfada sighting is that if the Gardaí helped her make up that story or even believed she made it up, then why did they send a man up to Longford to try and identify her lover boy?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Her first Fiona call was 11 January 1997

    You are correct re airhill etc being December



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Yes that part is odd alright. All I can think is she did see someone there. That meeting on Jan 28th in Garda Kelleher’s house was also odd, in that no notes were made.There were 2 other Gardai there ; Fitzgerald and Slattery I believe. I don’t think Bailey’s name was in the frame for the Kealfada sighting at this stage. A couple of days later Dwyer says to Bailey “I’ll put you on or near the scene”

    Lo and behold a report by Fitzgerald done from memory on the meeting at Kelleher’s house appears on the 7th Feb stating that Farrell had said at the meeting that the man on the bridge was Bailey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,276 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Dwyer did say that to Bailey. Gobshite Dwyer even repeats what he said to Bailey in the netflix documentary! He even had the audacity to say it with a smirk on his face in the documentary.

    The exact words were ' I will place you at Kilfeada bridge'.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,364 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I think the police got it wrong with their irrational fixation on Bailey to the exclusion of other suspects too early.

    But you or I are not privy to the amount of investigation that went into other subjects that resulted in their exclusion.

    Some assume that because the Gardai fixated on Baily they did not investigate the others.

    That's not necessarily the case, the evidence collected in investing others may have turned up absolutely nothing, compared to the man with the scratches, the bonfire, the night out of the house, the history of drunken violence, the confessions to random people.

    People read books and watch tv shows and then come on to places like this and they think that they have found something new that the authorities did not know or do, like investigate people other than Bailey thoroughly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch




  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    You strip down, remove your shoes, roll them up in the clothes clean side out, pop it in the boot and drive home in your underwear. I wasn`t trying to get away with murder, just trying to keep the vehicle interior clean. Bailey was a former court reporter and knew all about forensics an You strip down, remove your shoes, roll them up in the clothes clean side out, pop it in the boot and drive home in your underwear. I wasn`t trying to get away with murder, just trying to keep the vehicle interior clean. Bailey was a former court reporter and knew all about forensics and blood contamination.

    Well Tibruit, fair play to you for coming up with this one.

    It made me smile.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    This dumbness of Dwyer stinks to high heaven.

    Kaelfadda Bridge was not the murder site and anybody seen at any day or night at Kaelfadda bridge is certainly not per se a murderer.

    Presence at Kaelfadda bridge is also absolutely no evidence of murder which would ever be considered in a court of law.

    There is also no evidence that anybody seen at Kaelfadda bridge was at Sophie's house before, or was planning to visit her place later on.

    It's not impossible. After all, Bailey was burning something behind the studio.

    But then there is the problem of being spotted while undressing, or being stopped by the police while driving in underwear. A good excuse was probably having no time to dress up whilst almost caught in the act with a cheating wife.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "But you or I are not privy to the amount of investigation that went into other subjects that resulted in their exclusion."

    That's true, but there's plenty information on the investigation into Bailey, statements to the media by the Gardaí. Leaked information, photo opportunities of arrests. Even the Cute Hoor, Dwyer holding court in his armchair, all to convince the mob they have their man.

    Which goes towards your last point. The books, tv documentaries, newspapers etc. need this drama to sell their story.

    For instance, the West Cork Podcast is often quoted on here as if it's the only authority on the case. Yet it devotes just half a minute- yes 30 seconds-towards the end; episode 12 I think titled " Loose Ends" to 2 local suspects. They are not even named, just "the German" and "the Frenchman". Leo Bolger dismissed as a Bull McCabe type character because he wanted to buy land from Sophie.

    Edited to add, I don't believe the German, the Frenchman or The Bull are any more likely suspects than Bailey , but were they investigated thoroughly enough?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Fair enough if he did. I thought he said the opposite. Either way he really was going to be placing him at Kealfada because Marie Farrell had identified Bailey as the Kealfada man a week before Dwyer visited Bailey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    I don`t see what`s funny about it. Needs must.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "because Marie Farrell had identified Bailey as the Kealfada man a week before Dwyer visited Bailey."

    The thing is, she hadn't. Depending on which you go on Reigel or West Cork, Dwyer visited Bailey on either 30th or 31st Jan.(Bailey himself said 'late January')

    Fitzgerald's report dated 7th Feb, done from memory, on the meeting in Kelleher's house on 28th Jan is the first place we see the man on Kealfada bridge named as Bailey. In other words it's a week after Dwyer met Bailey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Not a week before then, but three days before the visit. Otherwise you are accusing Fitzgerald of fabricating it. The Gardaí had associated Marie Farrells Airhill man with Bailey two weeks before that in mid January. I don`t know when Ceri Williams first told them Bailey was across the street while Sophie was in Spar. But if Fiona said that it was the same man in the three sightings (and there is no reason to think that she didn`t, Marie still maintains this now), then the Gardaí would have been clear in their own heads that the Kealfada man must have been Bailey on January 28th.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Maybe so, but what I find suspicious is the fact Fitzgerald didn't didn't write up his report until a week after Dwyer wanted to "place" bailey near the scene. If only the flies on the wall in Kelleher's house could talk!



This discussion has been closed.
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