Share of inherited family home - which estate

whosedaddy? · 14-10-2022 8:25pm #1

Hi. When the parents died, 4 siblings inherited the family home in equal shares - to be sold at a letter date.

One sibling was living in the house and has since passed away without a will and next of kin are the siblings.

The house deeds where never changed and still are in parent's name.

If the siblings where considered joint tenants, with the death of one would the share not automatically fall to the surviving 3 tenants and therefore not be part of the deceased siblings estate?

Or does survivorship not apply here and is part of deceased siblings estate.

I know solicitor is needed, probably probate specialist. Just looking for directions.

Edit:

The question relates to the sale of the house. If the share passes to the surviving tenants and it's not part of the deceased tenants estate, then it shouldn't be covered by the grant of administration.

If the share in the house was part of estate, the house sale cannot conclude until grant of admiration.

It's the procedural side I'm interested in not the CAT implications (those are understood).

14-10-2022 8:46pm

Did the deceased leave a will?

If not, the deceased sibling's share would go to their next of kin, e.g. if they had any children, it would go to them first.

Next of kin is usually children and their descendants, then siblings.

http://oshealegal.ie/probate/next-kin/

whosedaddy? · 14-10-2022 9:25pm

Hi.

Deceased sibling did not leave will. Next of kin are same siblings that Jointly inherited the house.

Claw Hammer · 18-10-2022 11:13am

It would be possible for the deceased sibling to waive their entitlement to their share of the parents estate so the property would go directly to the three surviving siblings who could then sell it.

Peregrinus · 18-10-2022 12:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759705#Comment_119759705

Um, surely the deceased sibling is a bit too dead to be doing things like waiving their entitlements under a will?

Marcusm · 18-10-2022 12:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119760020#Comment_119760020

Candidate for post of the year!

MrMusician18 · 18-10-2022 12:53pm

One would think that probate should be processed twice, with the estate of the deceased sibling receiving their quarter share. This quarter share should then in turn be distributed as per the rules of dying intestate.

You'll need an expert in such matters now but it should be an example to the rest of us in deal with these matters promptly. I know this is often easier said than done.

Claw Hammer · 19-10-2022 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119760020#Comment_119760020

The per rep can do it.

coylemj · 19-10-2022 3:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119765457#Comment_119765457

I know in this case the effect would be neutral - the three surviving siblings are going to end up with 1/3 of the house each anyway but surely it's not possible for a personal representative to waive inheritance rights on behalf of a dead person?

phildub · 19-10-2022 5:36pm

If the property is held as joint tenants then it will pass automatically to the other joint tenants and will not make up part of deceased siblings estate. Probate will have to be taken out on parents will first so title is transferred in the correct names.

If the property was left in the will as tenants in common then it will form part of the deceased siblings estate which means the siblings (if they are the ones who stand to inherit) will have to pay inheritance tax on that portion of the property. I wouldn't imagine the per rep could waive the rights to the inheritance as this would not be beneficial to the estate and they do not have these instructions from the deceased sibling (i.e in the form of a will)

whosedaddy? · 19-10-2022 8:36pm

Thanks for all the comments. Yes, expert advice needs to be sought quickly.

One of the siblings is trying the sell the family home asap... and the tension is rising already.

Peregrinus · 20-10-2022 2:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119765457#Comment_119765457

The per rep's job is to get the assets in, not to renounce them. I would advise a per rep not even to consider doing this unless all the beneficiaries of the estate that they are is administering are of full age, and compos mentis, and they all get independent legal advice, and they all execute an indemnity relieving the per rep of any liability for renouncing an entitlement of the estate.

Claw Hammer · 20-10-2022 10:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768975#Comment_119768975

I am aware of cases where it has been done by agreement with the beneficiaries of the estate and it was acceppted by the Revenue. It often arises where elderly siblings inherit.

spaceHopper · 20-10-2022 10:31am

my advice is sell the house split it 4 and take 1/4 each then sort out the remaining 1/4 later. House prices could easily drop soon.

Claw Hammer · 20-10-2022 5:08pm

Who sells the house? the per rep of who's estate?

whosedaddy? · 20-10-2022 8:29pm

The executor of the parents estate is beneficiary of the house.

No application has been made for the siblings estate yet as not clear whether to include the house share or not, therefore no per rep for that estate. (Or just go ahead excluding it and change the revenue form later as material error ) it's a mess that needs sorting out..

For per rep to act as Claw Hammer's suggests, isn't grant of administration necessary first. Which means house sale is dependent on probate process?

Claw Hammer · 22-10-2022 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119772340#Comment_119772340

In the first post you said the four siblings inherited the those, therefore the four siblings are the beneficiary of the estate.

How can you now say the executor is the beneficiary of the estate?

DFB-D · 22-10-2022 11:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119772340#Comment_119772340

You are correct OP, the administration of the estate of the deceased sibling cannot act in the interests of the origin testator's other beneficiaries to expedite the process, even if they are the most probable beneficiaries of the deceased sibling.

The above does not change the outcome if the deceased died without issue (descendants) but Revenue only provide acknowledgements of filings and clearances, not acceptance of any filing, not that such an acceptance would be influencial.

whosedaddy? · 22-10-2022 11:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119778787#Comment_119778787

I was trying to answer your question.

One of the sons is executor or the parents will , in which he inherited equal share of the house.

Nobody has applied for grant of admin for the siblings estate yet, is it's not clear what is /isn't in the estate.

It was your suggestion the per rep for the siblings estate can waive entitlement and I'm trying to understand it.

Claw Hammer · 24-10-2022 2:40pm

So there are 4 beneficiaries of the parents estate. The property can be sold by the executor as per rep of the parents estate. That could mean CGT on the increase in value since the parent died. All the beneficiaries interest would then be in the proceeds of the sale. The per rep of the deceased sibling could waive the entitlement of her estate to any benefit from the parents estate. That would mean a 3 way split. If there was a 4 way split and the share of the deceased sibling was then distributed it would mean the CAT allowance could be used up and there may be a CAT liability for the surviving siblings. You need to see a good tax adviser to ensure you minimise your liabilities.

Alternatively the parent executor could transfer the house to the 4 of you jointly and then the 3 survivors sell. This could still result in CAT?CGT issues.

Share of inherited family home - which estate

Comments