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Galway traffic

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,573 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Again, I go back to my own earlier post on this - the ring road will never be built anyway and it's time to move on, HOWEVER

    If you are to combine the aim that by 2030 most cars on the road will be electric then you should be able make a justifiable case that new roads will comply with the climate act - however I can see why that argument could be lost as well.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think I need to get t-shirts made up because this has to be repeated so many times

    There is not any plan, anywhere, by any authority or body, that shows how an immediate rebalancing of road space will be done following the opening of this road. There is no proposal, drawings, design or feasibility study or anything which indicates any such action would take place. No plan for new one-ways to free up space for bus lanes or bike lanes. Nothing, nadda, zip, zero, zilch.

    In fact, history shows the exact opposite is true. Once new roads open, they lead to increased car usage thereby making it more and more difficult to reallocate space to alternative, more sustainable modes

    Take any town, village or city in the country that had a ring road or bypass built and try illustrate how road space was rebalanced right after the new infrastructure opened. I'll save you the effort, you won't find one.single.solitary example anywhere, in the entire country. It has never, ever happened.

    Here's 2 examples from Limerick in the 70's and the 2000's

    Naas

    Lest we forget

    So yeah, saying this road is needed to do x, y or z doesn't really count for much unless you want to show me costs and detailed designs and proposals which have planning approval and are fully funded.

    Otherwise its a case "its ok, you can trust us"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Park and ride is nearly pointless, if you have a car you will use it to complete your journey for the most part and currently Galway is a city that requires the majority of people to own a car to get about. I'm fortunate I can walk into work when the weather is good, the existing park and ride bus passes by me everyday and its nearly empty, granted a reduction in parking in the city or increases in parking prices may change things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,955 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Pearse Stadium

    If they are going to a match - run Bus to Pearse Stadium using P&R at Claregalway or get GAA clubs to start organizing buses from local Clubs to the big match days. This has to be the future.

    Re the existing park and ride. Are you referring to the one between UHG and Merlin @Digital Times?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hmm, another thing I just noticed about the usage numbers quoted in the first P&R graphic in my post, according to that, the N83 has a higher throughput than the N6 dual carriageway

    Do the laws of physics not apply in Claregalway?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,955 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Time to re-purpose the Oranmore Coast Road as a cycling and public transport priority road. That will improve the N6 stats!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,170 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    City Car Park owner supporting east to west and west to east traffic bypassing his car parks in the city?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Would it surprise you to know that the planning documents state that only 3% of all demand falls into that category.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    TRy telling that to the business owners who have to uproot and start again, or the elderly lady who loses her front garden, or the appartment owners who lose their only outdoor space, the arrogance of you is astounding to think people wont be affected, typical green hyprocisy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He responded to you with factual information, not arrogance or hypocrisy



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,107 ✭✭✭✭ben.schlomo


    You seem rather angry, the poster gave you facts. You are generally spouting whataboutery and making baseless, unverified statements.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Indeed, given the content of just Cannons tweets above, and there's a lot more in the application documents that are a lot more damaging to its case, its impossible to see how this road can ever get passed if put up against the climate action legislation.

    the 2 councils and TII may not want to admit it, but I don't think there is any way this road can ever be built. Further attempts to get it through planning will lead to further challenges and those challenges will go to the Supreme Court and will end up in Europe and will result in the road being quashed as there is nothing, absolutely nothing in the plans that show this to be anything other than an unmitigated disaster for the environment while there are other options available



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Don Juan II


    @[Deleted User] - where did you get that image? Do you know when the data was sampled?

    The stats for the Oranmore Coast Rd vs the Dual Carriageway is very interesting. I'd have expected much more traffic to use the dual carriageway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 482 ✭✭rustyfrog


    Sometimes traffic counts can be misleading, if a road is congested during the sample period it'll appear like few vehicles travel the road and demand is low.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    The greens are full of arrogance, the impact of the bus lane on some citizens is ignored and brushed aside because the bus lane is part of the green agenda, be honest and tell these people that they have to sacrifice their gardens, business and outdoor space for what the greens want,the silence from the greens is not surprising TBH.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Got it from the P&R doc's linked in this post

    The data doesn't seem to be coming from the TII traffic counters as the locations don't match and the TII don't have counters for some locations.

    One thing to note, the TII counter is close in #'s for the N6 however the counters they have at that location are for the on/off ramps, not the main carriageways, so if there are 1200+ using the on/off ramps how much more is using the actual dual carriageway



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    So it took you two days to come up with a response and even then you had to put words into my mouth, that I never actually said, in order to try find something to take issue with?

    I never said people won't be affected but can you please point me towards examples of CPOs where an elderly lady (or anyone at all) is losing their entire front garden? Or a CPO where apartment owners are losing their only outdoor space?

    From the map I'm looking at I can see a house losing a sliver of front garden but what they're left with will still be bigger then the front gardens of many surrounding houses. Similarly there is an apartment building losing a narrow strip of green area but still being left with a larger green area than many of the blocks in the same development.

    I'm sure that must be upsetting for those residents but it is in no way comparable to losing your home, and being paid compensation that will not allow you to buy something equivalent, but will instead force you out of your community that you've lived in for decades and into worse accommodation elsewhere.

    You seem to have a thing against greens and to be throwing that label at me. I'm not a green, I never have been a green, and I don't expect that I will be a green. Sitting behind the wheel of my car, driving my teenagers to places it was safe for me to cycle to when I was there age, makes me see the benefits of better transport options without necessarily making me a green. But, hey, if it's easier for you to vent your frustrations by calling people names and making up your own easily disproval 'facts', rather than actually making reasoned arguments to support your position, off with ya.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    😀I'm going, firstly apologies for calling you green,arrogant and a hypocrite.The elderly lady loses some of her garden so as to make it unusable, stepping out her front door into a bus lane,second time she lost some of her garden to Cpo, some of the businesses will have to relocate and it is very traumatic for the owners who I know, the existing space in the apartment block and townhouse is already severely limited.Further loss of are makes them unusable IMO.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Allow me to present a conundrum for you and see how you would solve it.

    The road network in galway city is currently at max capacity and can't accomodate any more private cars. This is with a population of approx 79k

    The population of the city is anticipated to grow by 50% over the next 2 decades

    How do you move 120,000 people in, around and through the city in an efficient and timely manner without reassigning road space to more efficient modes to encourage modal shift? Keep in mind moving 80k at the moment can't be done in an efficient or timely manner.

    Before you answer, consider this, regardless of whether the GCRR is built or not, this question still needs to be solved as the GCRR will only keep 3% of the existing traffic of the existing streets as the other 97% will all come through city streets and roads once it gets off the GCRR.

    In addition, take note of the content of the 3 Ciaran Cannon tweets above (see post #6579) when formulating your solution as they will give you an idea of the impact, or lack thereof, of the current plan to address this question.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    Fair play. That's rough being CPO'd twice. The maps available publicly seems to show a big chunk of the garden left untouched, especially when the works are complete and the temporary part is relinquished, but maybe it's more stark on the individual property maps? I don't think the green space outside the apartments is very useable as it is. Seems more decorative than anything else. Sad to lose it, of course. I feel sorry for the business owners but there is some nuance there. The B&B being lost in Woodquay isn't about buses at all. It's just to increase capacity for cars coming from Prospect Hill and the Corrib SC carpark to exit onto the Headford Road. The Council loves tacking on stuff they wanted to do for a long time onto bigger projects so it gets central funding. The petrol station is a strange one. The permanent acquisition isn't huge but the temporary CPO is for the entire space. If they are being put out of business for the duration they should get compensated fairly, but they won't, which is wrong.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    2 more (non-green) local TD's calling for increases in PT spending and allocations for bus routes from the county into the city

    Sinn Fein

    Fianna Fail




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    If we were to heavily commit to PT instead of more roads, I presume this would mean dedicated bus lanes on both sides of road from:

    Oughterard? Moycullen? along Upper Newcastle?

    Spiddal? Barna?

    Headford? Clonbur?

    Claregalway? Already there in parts

    Monivea road?


    Double track railway line to Athenry? With new stations? Where: Renmore, Merlin hosp, Roscam, Oranmore village? Branches to Merlin Park hospital, Oranmore?

    What about Karlsruhe-type tram-train along the railway line from Athenry/Oranmore/Merlin, into city, and then onto another route through the city?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,955 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Don't see need for dedicated bus lanes outside of City boundary for starters to be honest.

    Take just N59.

    Moycullen is getting a bypass.

    If we had buses running every 15 minutes from 07h00 -> 19h00 from Moycullen how many private vehicles has that potential to remove? (Opening a Secondary School in Moycullen should also be done - would also have an impact)

    Priority bus and cycle measure on N59 on approach to Dangan inbound and full length of Thomas Hynes Road(has room for it) and then it links in with the Cross City BusConnects and SQR / BOD corridor.

    100% on Double track all the way to Athenry - should have been done decades ago



  • Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭thebackbar


    i'd agree with that, no need for bus lanes outside of the city boundary, i do think all kids up to 18years old should have free public transport, if that doesn't persuade parents to get their kids to use buses, then i do think congestion charges should be considered, but only after the buses and bus shelters are put in place.

    Above all i'd really like to see a plan for sorting the cities traffic problems, i do believe if the ring road was a real attempt at solving the cities traffic problems they would have incorporated the building of the park and ride facilities into the plan, along with plans for buses etc in the city.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    More on the P&R's, this time looking at the Headford rd where there is no long term plan for the P&R, just an indication that one could go there

    11,000 cars per day, NTA propose a P&R with 170 spaces and no bus lane infrastructure



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Gaol Rd at the back of the Cathedral will be closed for nearly 2 months to facilitate the installation of the new bridge from 24th Oct to 22nd Dec

    Map available at the link



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    NTA Active Travel and Sustainable Transport Measurement Grant Annual Bulletin (what a mouthful ffs) has just been released.

    It goes through how each council have done with their spending of the active travel funding given to them.

    Its great because they are all lined up and compared to each other in terms of projects applied for, completed and results.

    Its pretty horrific results for the city council to be honest, especially considering how much funding they received

    Some headline figures at a national level first

    This is amazing to see and its still a long way off the 360mil a year thats available

    Galway City Council got 5.57 million, not including the 10+ million allocation for Cross City Link

    What was delivered is below, both councils marked

    Now to be fair, I know they have projects in the works, like the Cross City Link, and its important to note that the approx 40 meters of bike lane in that project won't show up in the numbers until that project is formally completed.

    The Dublin Rd redesign will be more substantial and will be along the lines of SQR in terms of infrastructure for crossings, paths, bike lanes.

    And I'll freely acknowledge the great work they've been doing with laneways etc to add more permeability and the likes of Millars lane, all of which won't fall under the categories listed in this report.

    Hopefully in time Galway's rollout will reflect the national graph below




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,955 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Rather than free transport up to 18 - maybe just free School transport first but aim towards the former as will create a culture of using public transport year round.

    For me - the big weakness of the GTS / Ring Road has always been that what you describe; and ARUP's own numbers show that this to be the case for the build case scenario as so little re-allocation of space on the current network is in the plans.

    Public transport and cycling numbers as modal share are in the Single digits in the 2039 figures.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,799 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Went to the new Tesco in Knocknacarra this morning, did not realise the nutty inbound traffic jams in the area, motorists avoiding Shangort traffic cutting through at speed through the shop's car park to Kingston Road to gain a few seconds. No wonder they have speed ramps in that car park.



This discussion has been closed.
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