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Was the government right to put no limit on the amount of Ukrainian refugees in Ireland? Read OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭CeCe12


    Will be interesting to see what they view as a nominal amount.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    The key tenet of that post is that indigenous Irish people will be a minority in Ireland by 2040. I don’t know whether that will happen or not, but given current levels of inward migration, it’s not impossible.

    To remind you, you used the word 'indigenous' without defining it. Can you answer my original question on what you meant? It shouldn't be hard - who are the indigenous Irish you were referring to? WRT to the UK migration, my point was to ask you, would migration from the UK (for whatever reason) be o.k. as they're not indigenous? Or are they indigenous? Perhaps so in the past?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,336 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Probably a fiver a week per person staying there. A token gesture to the Irish citizens.

    my Dad in his ‘80’s, in A & E since the early hours of this morning. 13.16 now still sat there…. Not been seen to be admitted or sent home. But sure, no limit to people arriving and the demand they put on these services.

    Edit : Spoke to him on the phone now , he is there almost 12 hours

    Cûntish country. But inviting thousands more people to rely and benefit for services like healthcare and putting a greater demand and burden on them… piss poor.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He shouldn't need to define the word because the meaning is not difficult to understand. Native. Originating in Ireland.

    Someone who is from Nigeria, could become Irish (nationality) but they wouldn't be native to Ireland. Indigenous.

    Do a google search for the "indigenous people of Australia".. the British/Irish settlers aren't counted, or any immigrants since then. Only those who were native to that country, that is, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    So, diaspora returnees: no. Spouses of diaspora citizens: no.

    EU citizens with right to work in Ireland: No (e.g., imagine Ukraine joining the EU)

    Brits via the CTA: No

    Northern Irish: No

    Do I have that right? Basically, birthright citizens only? And, what of EU citizens who work here and have children - not them either?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No. Indigenous tends to refer to the native ethnic population of a country. So, diaspora would be ethnically Irish. EU citizens wouldn't be. Northern Irish would be, if they're ethnically Irish. If they're ethnically Scots/English, then they wouldn't be indigenous Irish.

    You're missing or intentionally sidestepping the point. You can acquire Irish nationality through citizenship. You cannot acquire the native/indigenous appellation.

    So, the indigenous population becoming a minority is a possibility. Just as colonialism/imperialism brought about the creation of indigenous populations as minorities, through the introduction of a foreign population. ie. as in Australia, or the US. (and in the case of this thread, the reference was through immigration)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You seem to have an awful unlucky family, they all seem to end up in A&E a lot and all their problems appear to be root caused to non-Irish. It's really strange



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    So, then, what does 'ethnically Irish' mean? I'm still puzzled by how you determine 'indigenous' in a country like Ireland that has had a history of massive emigration. How many 'indigenous' Irish are there? Ones that can trace their ancestry back to bronze age? Ireland had lots of cross-pollination with Scotland over time, so you could trace back 'Indigenous' Irish through their Scottish ancestry.

    And, why does it matter - which was the point of @Hamachi s posting. We're probably at a tiny percentage of Indigenous Irish today. Do you have any numbers?



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,121 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    If we could remove the bogus claims we would be able to help out more people fleeing wars.

    It's a pity the Ukraine people are treated poorly but it's as much to blame from so called "left" as is anyone else.

    Although I use these so called left and right in same bracket, basically nut jobs.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So, then, what does 'ethnically Irish' mean? I'm still puzzled by how you determine 'indigenous' in a country like Ireland that has had a history of massive emigration

    I would understand your puzzlement if Ireland had a history of immigration, but we don't (until relatively recently). Ireland has remained, even under English/British rule, a predominately Irish ethnic population.

    And as Hamachi pointed out, you're purposely confusing the issue, and seeking to draw this out. The status of being native or indigenous is very clear. I even posted examples of other cultures where this happens to make it clearer, and you're still claiming confusion. I don't buy it.

    Not everything is negotiable or open for wide interpretation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I would understand your puzzlement if Ireland had a history of immigration

    Every country has a history of immigration, how else do you think they became populated?

    The Aboriginals are thought to have came from Africa via Asia to cite your example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,437 ✭✭✭HBC08



    I'm very sorry to hear about this,its so scandalous but barely gets a mention these days.

    Healthcare has been a mess as long as I can remember but the current shambles is going to make it more expensive to run yet worse than it is now.Bringing unlimited people into the country where the services/healthcare/housing system was collapsing anyway is a crazy policy.

    Best of luck to your dad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DelaneyIn


    The Irish (IrishMuintir na hÉireann or Na hÉireannaigh) are an ethnic group and nation native to the island of Ireland, who share a common history and culture.


    Very simple, really. The indigenous Irish have been on this island a lot longer than the Native Americans have been living in parts of modern day USA. Nobody ever disputes their indigenous claims to that country. We share a similar history of colonisation, oppression, destruction of our native culture, language and being treated as second class citizens - at best - by our colonial overlords.


    Yet, when an Irish person dares use the term native Irish or indigenous Irish to describe the Irish people, not passport holders; the open border crowd get very offended indeed and play these useless word games where we can go back in time to when we all evolved from tetrapods. See, the Irish aren’t indigenous!


    These games are never brought out to play when discussing non European indigenous groups. It is most strange.



  • Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DelaneyIn


    Over 100k PPSN have been issued to non Irish so far this year. Do you honestly claim that this has not exasperated the housing crisis at all?


    You could say mass.



  • Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DelaneyIn


    I would not recommend telling an Australian Aboriginal that they’re not indigenous to Australia. They’ve been in Australia for 50,000 years.

    Theyre indigenous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I didn't tell anyone anything, I stated a fact.


    🤷‍♂️



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Over 100k PPSN have been issued to non Irish so far this year. Do you honestly claim that this has not exasperated the housing crisis at all?

    I did not make that claim



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    What's the criteria for being indigenous to the African continent ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DelaneyIn


    Senator David Norris was born in what is now The Congo. Does that make him native Congolese? Of course not. But the opposite is true to these folk.

    It is most strange logic.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think their point is that being indigenous is irrelevant.

    It doesn't matter whether "a people" came there 50 thousand years ago, or 20 years ago, everyone should be considered the same, with the same rights, and considerations. Certainly, the past contributions of those who came before these migrants have no importance or relevance. Nah. Immigration is wonderful in every possible way, and we should do everything possible to encourage it happening, without limits or restrictions.

    Now, completely ignore that this should only, ever, be applied to western nations, and the fact that non-western nations strictly reinforce the differences between indigenous populations and foreign groups, especially when it relates to rights and economic benefits. We (western nations) should be a beacon of hope and fairness, regardless of the costs to those sharing the greatest degree of the tax burden, and the longer term negative consequences of such an open door policy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're mixing the indigenous relationship for a people with the nationality of an individual. Nationality is a relatively modern concept (with culture and ethnicity being interchangeable a hundred years ago).

    Being indigenous to a region isn't a choice or changeable.. whereas nationality, in many respects, is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    It's mad alright. I look forward to them Telling Native Americans to Drop the Native part. And African Americans to drop the American part. 🤪



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The worry was that it might give refugees tenants rights. As it is, they’re only given temporary shelter and do not have any rights. It will need to be carefully worded.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,336 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    no my dad is just in his ‘80’s.. several medical conditions one which this department in the Mater are not keen to operate to fix given his age… although that might change…never said root causes are non Irish, how can a medical problem be caused by a non Irish person ? but DaCor being disingenuous and personalising the topic and peoples concerns and experiences and indeed expectations…. what a surprise :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,513 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Weird how that supposed timeline coincides with the great replacement theory guff in the USA. Almost like fringe lunatics saw that rhetoric was rallying people to them and they tailored the good word for the Irish



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,464 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    So, how many indigenous Irish are there in Ireland today, since @Hamachi was claiming they'll be the minority by 2040. 4 million? 1 million?

    If Diaspora Irish are indeed indigenous, then can 85 million of them show up?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    About the same amount as the previous number of years before the Ukrainian crisis.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wonder, given our time under the Viking overlords, should we consider the Dubs ethnically Scandinavian?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,336 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    PPSN allocations to non nationals have been steadily increasing since 2013.

    2013..75,720

    2018..109,303

    A 44% increase in only 5 years.


    Ukrainian people receiving a PPSN for the week ending 22 May 2022 was 33,151… interestingly, I can’t find more recently attributed numbers to the rest of the more recent months, quelle surprise



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