Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

ersatz · 17-10-2022 7:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756084#Comment_119756084

I was impressed by Carbery in this game. At this point I’m expecting him to make mistakes and he didn’t disappoint but some of his passing was excellent, particularly a couple of flat passes to the outside of the forwards pod that caught the Bulls out and made yards and quicker ruck ball as a consequence. In situations where pods got that sort of ball or when players carried the ball on through contact as a result of technique and footwork (Byrne, Coombes, Edogbo, a couple the backs) Munster were motoring. Yes there were mistakes but Carbery's ratio of good to bad was much better in this game than anything else this season. I wouldn't be picking him for Ireland on the strength of it but when Munster bring accuracy and intensity to their carrying and breakdown work he is doing fine on the evidence of this game. Casey's snappy passing works in this environment but he's not been as impressive as I've seen him in the past, poor kicks and occasionally just the wrong decision, nevertheless he's mixing it up with snipes, kicks and changing the direction of his passing so that also buys time. He isn't far off a very positive performance. Beating the Bulls well is a very good outcome and something that will bring a positive buzz to the squad.

ulsteru20s · 17-10-2022 7:34pm

I would agree that he played well especially as the game progressed. I thought alot of the things he did well were not really in set plays but he definitely upped his performance.

I still think that crowley has more upside.

edit: reply to ersatz,, forgot to quote.

aloooof · 17-10-2022 7:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757480#Comment_119757480

I'd agree with a lot of that ersatz but on this:

Casey's snappy passing works in this environment but he's not been as impressive as I've seen him in the past

I'd disagree. I think he (or maybe Tadhg Beirne) had been Munster's best player this season up to the Bulls game. Albeit, that's not saying much...

ersatz · 17-10-2022 7:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757573#Comment_119757573

Agree he has been a standout so far, I just thought he didn't up his game as much as the team around him in this game. And I guess I was cursing few of his poor kicks when I thought Munster just needed to stay cool and not make mistakes to get through the line. I felt they ran the Bulls around well and a couple of his choices failed to build on some of the potential they'd built up. For me if Munster are going to go well in Europe this year he is going to have to be near flawless.

phog · 17-10-2022 9:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757596#Comment_119757596

if Munster are going to go well in Europe this year he is going to have to be near flawless.

Isn't that the same for most teams, actually, add the outhalf to that too.

aloooof · 17-10-2022 9:05pm

I don't think we can expect any player to be near flawless, tbh.

And with a higher tempo game, you're likely to see more errors but there's also more upside regardless. We've seen as much with JGP and Ireland.

17-10-2022 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757334#Comment_119757334

😑 Here's the literal original post, the only reference to Carbery in the post:

I thought it was the best Munster's attacking shape has looked in a long time. First time in age Carbery looked to be playing with confidence, and didn't look tentative in his decisions. Crowley added a huge spark and really looks to have something about him.

aloooof · 17-10-2022 9:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757963#Comment_119757963

But these:

[Carbery] didn't look tentative in his decisions.

[Carbery] was less tentative in his decision making.

aren't the same, FTD.

phog · 17-10-2022 9:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757963#Comment_119757963

Please tell me you actually see the difference in your two posts because if you don't then we're wasting our time.

ersatz · 17-10-2022 9:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757937#Comment_119757937

Byrne has given up, what, one or 2 penalties this season? Maybe I'm ignoring other stuff but he hasn't done much wrong and has seen a lot of ball and an awful lot of ruck work. For me Casey has to be a leader in this Munster team, Carbery might come into his own and build on a good game against the Bulls but he is not a guy who is going to boss the forwards around the field. Murray on song could always lead in that way and Munster really need it from Casey now given that the options at ten just aren't those players. He seems to be though, that's why Id say he is pivotal to their success if he plays very well.

aloooof · 17-10-2022 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119758067#Comment_119758067

I'm presuming you mean Tadhg Beirne here, as an example of someone near flawless? He calls the lineout, which is misfiring badly at the moment. Other than that he's been excellent tho; a few penalties given away, but you're going to get that from someone with his jackal threat. Again, I don't expect Tadhg Beirne to be near flawless either; it's pretty unreasonable imo.

But even still, there are other issues with that comparison too namely:

Tadhg Beirne is a 30 year old Lion. It's still unclear if 23 year old Casey is first choice.
Your SH sees the ball far more frequently than any other player.

And I've given the example of JGP to demonstrate that, in a higher tempo game, you don't need your 9 to be near flawless to be successful.

ersatz · 17-10-2022 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119758142#Comment_119758142

No disagreement except to say that JGP works with Sexton outside him, JS does most of the organizing for Ireland and the point I making is that for Munster to compete with the best teams their 9 needs to be doing that and making excellent decisions too.

aloooof · 18-10-2022 7:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119758722#Comment_119758722

Excellent, yes. Near flawless, nah.

ersatz · 18-10-2022 8:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759071#Comment_119759071

I’ll be adding a pedant alert to your comments. How many mistakes is a 9 allowed to be near flawless and how many to be merely excellent? Let’s take kicks at between 7 and ten in a match. Off the top of my head Casey is on the money with half of his, maybe 20% count as bad, the rest are meh, maybe lead to an opposition scrum or a messy turnover that doesn’t give up much territory. It’s the 20% I’d worry about, against good teams they can be linebreaks and even tries. 2 of those per match is too many I’d say, even 1 is. You could see the likes of Ringrose, Keenan, Conway, BB etc, scoring off those. Flawless by this measure is zero, but how many is excellent? Murray in his pomp rarely made a genuinely bad one.

Sniping is important but not good if you get isolated and turned over. Casey gives up one of these (at a very fuzzy recollection guess) every 2 games. Flawless means rarely (near) to never (flawless), how many is excellent? (Again, you’re distinguishing, not me).

casey needs to be more like Murray in his prime for Muster to compete in Europe, but I’m interested in how you codify the difference between near flawless and excellent.

aloooof · 18-10-2022 9:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759147#Comment_119759147

I’ll be adding a pedant alert to your comments.

Submit it as a feature request to boards if you like... 🙄

But to illustrate (using an "out of 10" rating which I'm not particularly a fan of) I'd say excellent is 8-9 out of 10, whereas near flawless is 9.5.

If Casey needs to be near flawless for Munster to be competitive with the best in Europe, then I don't expect Munster to be competitive with the best in Europe. (And I'm not sure many fans have any great expectations for Europe this season anyways tbh).

I mean, you gave Tadhg Beirne as an example and he's calling the lineout.

casey needs to be more like Murray in his prime

I'd disagree with this tbh; even comparing to Murray at this pomp, they're quite different SH's. I think that's part of the reason the transition to Casey becoming first choice has been relatively slow, in that they play quite different games.

phog · 18-10-2022 9:42am

Does anyone know if they'll be P&R facilities available for the SA match in PuC? I'm half thinking of parking near Con's field and walking down to PuC but if there was P&R I might go with that.

aloooof · 18-10-2022 12:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757289#Comment_119757289

I'd be reasonably happy with that. Wouldn't mind seeing Goggin start, think he's done pretty ok this season. Would also like to see Salanoa involved, I'd nearly favour starting Knox and putting him on the bench (as much as Archer was better against the Bulls). I'd be in favour of a 6/2 split again too.

Interested Observer · 18-10-2022 12:32pm

Munster and Leinster fighting it out to see who can get more injuries before the AIs.

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1582324891713679360?s=20&t=wL2_M5AlJkwW4ExPgsqXOA

aloooof · 18-10-2022 1:30pm

Shane Horgan on Second Captains seemingly entirely unaware of the players Munster were missing vs Connacht that necessitated Carbery player at 15:

Was [Carbery's] performance at 10 a reaction to playing 15 last week, which I don't know the exact circumstances behind it or the conversations had behind closed doors but for Joey Carbery it's not really comfortable.

I find that kinda stuff annoying, tbh; I don't think it's too much to ask that pundits would do a small bit of research.

Eod100 · 18-10-2022 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759369#Comment_119759369

Haven't heard any info but would be a good idea if they had that option.

phog · 18-10-2022 1:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119760251#Comment_119760251

It wasn't difficult to research our injury list and put 2 & 2 together from that.

aloooof · 18-10-2022 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119760327#Comment_119760327

It's a pretty low bar to expect of a pundit as well tbh...

Akrasia · 18-10-2022 8:24pm

Squad update today is some grim reading

Salanoa definitely out against Leinster with a head injury, Archer may be just about fit enough to play if we're lucky.

We're gonna need Keynan Knox to perform

Worse still, Casey is being assessed. If Murray starts I think we'll do well to avoid a humiliation. Casey has to be available if we are to have any chance of pulling something off.

We're also potentially missing 2 locks, Beirne and Edogbo meaning we may not be able to play the 3 lock pack that gave us the power we were missing in the first 4 games

aloooof · 18-10-2022 9:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119762310#Comment_119762310

Just the 15 players out....

Unavailable: RG Snyman (knee), Jack Daly (knee), Alex Kendellen (head), Paddy Kelly (head), Keith Earls (thigh), Andrew Conway (knee), Simon Zebo (calf), Fineen Wycherley (shoulder), Antoine Frisch (calf).

RTPP: Salanoa

Availability will be determined later in the week: Archer, Edogbo, Beirne, Casey, Nash.

Pretty thin if none of them make it back, could be looking at something like: