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General British politics discussion thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,690 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Johnson lost his job because the polls were on (what we thought at the time was) the floor.

    All those red wall MPs were going to lose their job under Johnson along with a lot of other MPs. There was no morals involved in his stepping down it was his shtty polls.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,311 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The giant disadvantage being it's Boris Johnson, the PM who was then historically unpopular before Liz Truss went "hold my beer". It's like they've just forgotten why Truss got chosen in the first place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,413 ✭✭✭cml387


    Johnson supporters would say that the party panicked when they dumped him, the herd stampeded and forced him out.

    Partygate? well the narrative here (and the Telegraph suggested as much this week) is that most of the Covid restrictions were unnecessary anyway so it was all right to break them.

    It's looneyville, but that's where it's at.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,429 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    This. Johnson had a 53% negative approval rating by the time he was dumped. The Tories had been declining relentlessly in the opinion polling for over a year, and had been behind Labour for more than six months. This wasn't a momentary panic; this was the cumulative and continuing effect of episode after episode after episode where Johnson's laziness, entitlement, disdain and arrogance were manifested. And Tory MPs could see that this would never change. Johnson does not have what it takes to be a credible Prime Minister and his second term of office, were he to have one, would be every bit as painful for the party and the country as his first was.

    Even now, with public attention focussed on how awful Truss is, Johnson has a negative approval rating of 36%. He's probably the last person who has any chance of leading the Tory party out of the swamp into which he has taken it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The consensus that Boris will not get the votes is definitively breaking down this morning. He’s helped by the fact that the nominations will be private. JRM has just now publicly declared for Boris, which means he probably has the right wing behind him. He reportedly is well on the way to 100 nominations.

    If he’s in the mix it’s hard to see him not winning. He will never drop out if he’s ranked 2nd and would clearly win a members vote

    momentum behind Boris is building fast. It’ll be a disaster and a gift for labour



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭rock22


    For what it is worth, the question of the new Tory Party leader came up on Question Time last night on BBC1.

    The vast majority of the audience wanted a general election.

    A handful, maybe 5, suggested Johnson. Even his sister Rachel, on the panel, didn't suggest him.

    Mordaunt was suggested by one audience member. Sunak was suggested by panel member, Camilla Cavendish, FT, on the basis of his economic plans and prediction of what would happen if Truss went ahead with hers.

    Fiona Bruce made a big point of saying that the audience was representative of English voters. The majority were conservative voters.

    Only Tony Danker, CBI, on the panel, really thought it was a good idea for the conservatives to continue.

    Interesting, there was applause for the suggestion that electoral reform and PR was needed .

    The impression, from that audience, is that the majority are fed up with the Conservatives and what a new start with a different, Labour or coalition government.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think Mordant would be Penney wise, but Pound foolish.

    She has a low profile for a very good reason.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,690 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Between Covid, food banks and the lack of heating this winter the country would be better off with Pennywise.

    He killed far less people than this Tory government.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,311 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Perhaps, but if she at least conveys a degree of competence and sobriety it's a much better prospect than a return to Boris Johnson's unique brand of populist bluster.

    Im still genuinely shocked this is a serious consideration by the Conservatives. It's only been 4 months; nobody's memory is that short, nobody's lust for power that blind that they'd turn back to someone provably unpopular. They're in this exact situation because of Johnson in the first place!



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,986 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    Johnson is still to appear in front of the Privileges Committee about all the shenanigans the last time he was in charge.

    They'd be mad to look to him again but the Tories are FUBAR (which you love to see).

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,481 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I met my friend in the civil service earlier this week. He reiterated his low estimation of Truss' intellect but said that Johnson will somehow win the next election based on charisma and charm. I retorted citing the abysmal polling and nearly 200,000 covid deaths that caused him to be ousted to begin with, with the polling being mostly responsible. He just doubled down.

    I think Johnson returning would be perfect. We've seen what he is and now it's directly impacted the public as well. Nobody has been levelled up and a lot of people have lost loved ones over Zoom while Johnson was perfecting his Dancing Queen routine and siring children.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Quote ^ 'If Truss makes it to Christmas, I would be surprised.'

    I did predict that Truss would not make it to Christmas. But I am surprised at the speed of her departure. I always maintained that she was a talent-free waste of space.

    Cameron was bad, May was worse, Johnson was a liar and disaster driven by his own narcist obsession, but Truss has exhausted the English language to find a word to describe just how awful she was.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,346 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I keep seeing words like 'loveable', 'entertaining', 'charisma', 'charm' applied to Boris Johnson. I just don't see it. He is at best an irritating, irresponsible, dishonest fool; the word disingenuous would probably fit in there somewhere but I doubt he is that intelligent, despite claims to the contrary. I suppose if you were in his company drunk you might see charisma but beyond that, no.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,838 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I'd say there are plenty in the Tory membership who would be happy to have Johnson back. To be a paid up member of the Conservative Party, you have to be pretty blinkered and in a small affluent bubble, their thinking obviously aren't reflective of society in general. I can definitely see them reinstating him and said as much a couple of weeks ago.

    I can't see it doing them any favours with the rest of the electorate though. The refusal to relinquish power and the disastrous way things have gone since they came to power will turn many against them indefinitely. Boris is incompetent and doesn't care for anything but himself, he's even on holidays right now when we should be working.

    Don't know why Sunak would tie himself to Johnson again, it would be the ruination of him. He was right to keep the head down while Truss was PM and i think he'd be better off doing the same for whoever is next.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,481 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    He's not a clown, he's a manipulative psychopath incapable of thinking of anything but his own material gain and desires. He's also incredibly lazy and has no appetite whatsoever for either work or detail.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭interlocked


    "Boris" has always been an act, a mask to fool the easily fooled. The real Alexander Johnson is a sociopath that care for nothing but himself, in whatever area of life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,007 ✭✭✭Shelga


    Surely Sunak would be a fool to enter any kind of deal with Johnson, returning to the previous situation of Johnson as PM and Sunak resigned because he said people expect governance to be carried out “properly, competently and seriously.” The implication being that this was not the case under Johnson.

    Why would he then go back on all of that, and make himself the person directly responsible for the last 3/4 months of complete chaos, only to return to the status quo, which he said in July doesn’t work?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,481 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Exactly. Boris and Alexander are like Alan Partridge and Steve Coogan.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,372 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    I honestly find it disturbing that anyone would consider Johnson a suitable candidate for PM given his attitude to sexual abuse.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,481 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The entirety of modern conservative philosophy can summed up by greed, corruption and owning the libs. There's nothing more to it. Johnson satisfies these criteria nicely.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,490 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    British press played a big part in creating the myth of "Boris". Most people who actually know him consider him a vile, selfish human being but the myth has him as "charismatic", "engaging", "charming" etc.

    And yes, he doesn't seem remotely intelligent. Interviews with him are excruciating to watch as he can barely string a sentence together and is not on top of the detail.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,481 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    A producer for Have I got News for You said that having Johnson on as a guest presenter was the biggest mistake he ever made.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,388 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Ben Wallace (who was an outsider shot at being an acceptable candidate for all) has ruled himself out. He has also said he is 'leaning towards' backing Johnson.

    This is heading one-way quite quickly.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,311 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Maybe the key question is: does Johnson want to be the one to preside over, and attempt to fix, a society and economy still plummeting because of Brexit compounded hardship?

    Cos a man almost gleefully allergic to working doesn't seem the type to want to inject himself into an increasingly destitute scenario. At least for now he can pretend to be the guy to get the vaccines out. True or not it's better than having to actually do work and fix a broken economy.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,481 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    No, I think he'd just enjoy the idea of his party coming to him on bended knee begging him to save them. We've seen by his actions how much he cares about anything but himself.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,585 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If he gets in I can guarantee he'll continuing banging on about the vaccine rollout. It seems to be recent Tory PR practice to just answer every question with a reference to something you think is good for PR (Truss repeatedly mentioning the unit price cap, for instance); and he hasn't got anything newer to push.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,074 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    You don't win as many elections as Boris has without having huge charisma tbf.

    It's a massive gamble, but if the alternative is Sunak a man who has no track record of winning elections and isn't that popular with the general public then I understand the punt. They are in the "nothing to lose " stage so if even protests some of their seats then it won't have been the worst punt.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,311 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Yeah but surely even he knows what awaits him if he takes the job. Even in the space of time since he announced his resignation the economy has continued to find new Rock Bottoms, and winter hasn't even started yet. More strikes incoming while the BBC secretly prepares programming in case of blackouts; it could get even uglier real soon.

    He'll have to do something, and it's not like the public won't still be seething at his return with all variations of Fool Me Once... types not prepared to give him that popularity bounce post-election. Meanwhile Starmer, Sturgeon, the LibDems (presumably) will keep claiming it's time for a General Election.

    This all feels like a hiding to nothing and it feels so cataclysmically misjudged it's possible Johnson challenges Truss' record length of leadership. How anyone thinks this will wash with the public is beyond me. Even Napoleon's exile was longer at 12 months IIRC.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,481 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    He might know but Johnson is a man who prioritises instant gratification above all else. It's what he has devoted his life to.

    Remember, this is the man who missed five COBRA meetings while Covid-19 established itself in the UK. For context, there have only been two occasions in the preceding decade where a PM missed a COBRA meeting, David Cameron because Barack Obama was visiting and Theresa May who was chairing an NSA meeting at the time of the Salisbury poisonings.

    He might be up for increasing spending to help people cope with the winter heating bills but even that's a bit of a stretch. They know they're done. If they couldn't get him to lock down while bodies were piling up, it's hard to see him doing anything now.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,960 ✭✭✭Christy42


    He doesn't need to try and fix the economy. Just blame, Truss, the EU and Labour and continue swindling for a few years. That is his skill set and I can see a Tory win in 2 years with him blaming everyone for his failings.



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