"Green" policies are destroying this country

ps200306 · 19-10-2022 5:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119766437#Comment_119766437

It's worse than that. The amount of offshore wind mentioned is only based on existing demand, no provision for growth, and no exports. It's premised on inventing a whole new hydrogen economy from scratch which they say they are researching through a partnership with dCarbonX, a tiny management-heavy startup. Look them up to see some familiar faces -- John O'Sullivan and Tony O'Reilly Jr, ex-exploration manager and ex-CEO (famous for his Maltese permatan) moved on from Providence Resources after failing to bring Barryroe to fruition. Small world, huh? No disrespect, but this is a total wing-and-prayer venture. That people are seriously talking about this as a solid plan for transitioning a high-tech economy is gobsmacking. Though I guess saving the leeches is part of biodiversity, right?

cnocbui · 19-10-2022 6:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119766258#Comment_119766258

No, they just used a long focal length lens, which severely compresses distance and distorts scale.

The distance between the water and the turbine is about 15km, as the crow flies.

cnocbui · 19-10-2022 6:48pm

Swedish government scraps environment ministry

Updated: 19/10/2022 - 12:23

https://www.euronews.com/2022/10/18/devastating-consequences-as-new-swedish-government-scraps-environment-ministry

8-)

US3 · 19-10-2022 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747559#Comment_119747559

Everyone is eligible except those who aren't eligible is what he means..

tom1ie · 19-10-2022 9:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768089#Comment_119768089

He’s talking pony in other words.

Capt'n Midnight · 19-10-2022 10:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119765650#Comment_119765650

The myth is that nuclear is expensive to build and cheap to run.

Hinkley-C is rated at 3.2GW At a guaranteed CPI index linked price of £92.50 per MWh(2012) which is now £118.58/MWh (Aug 2022)

£118.58 * 3200MW * 365.25 *24 = £3326311296

So the price is over €3.82Bn per year in today's money.

Your €3.95Bn would only feed the monster for 3.3 years out of a 35 year contract. ( Total £133 Bn for just 3.2GW , ie €41Bn per GW )

The UK govt has been actively trying to start up 6-8 new nuclear plants since 2010. Hinkley is the only that's left the drawing board and so late that renewables would have paid for themselves by now. It can't load balance, it can't help with extra demand in winter, it can't provide grid stability in winter, the electricity is too expensive to store, as the largest generator on the grid there are large capital and running costs with providing it with backup and spinning reserve. And there's all the fossil fuel burnt while it's been delayed. It's taken the resources of the UK, French and Chinese governments to keep the project going.

BTW there are plenty of sandbanks off the east coast no need for any floating windfarms any time soon.

The only use I can see for nuclear on the Irish grid is to threaten the nimby's with it to get onshore wind which is a fraction of €41Bn/GW even if you have to replace the blades and gearboxes after 20-25 years.

19-10-2022 10:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768505#Comment_119768505

I do love when you pop by 😉

ps200306 · 19-10-2022 11:00pm

I wonder when the penny will drop that the rising costs and lack of competitiveness with China are because of green policies, among other things. Biz Post reports:

European wind industry ‘struggling’ with rising costs

European wind turbine manufacturers are financially struggling and cutting jobs, putting them at risk of losing market share to Chinese competitors, despite the energy crisis, major industry players have warned.

Turbine makers General Electric Renewables and Siemens Gamesa both announced job cuts in recent weeks, and European manufacturers were “all financially struggling,” Jon Lezamiz Cortázar, global head of public affairs at Siemens Gamesa, told the Financial Times.

“Everything is getting much more expensive in an already stretched wind industry supply chain,” he said. If the situation did not improve, “it may happen that the European Green Deal is installed with non-European technology”.

The Global Wind Energy Council said it was likely to downgrade its forecasts for the amount of new capacity added this year globally from around 101 gigawatts to 94-95 gigawatts. This amounts to almost no growth since last year, with 2021 being a peak year for offshore wind installation.

The challenging picture comes even as European leaders scramble to boost their supply of domestically produced renewable energy in the context of a global energy crisis fuelled by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The EU wants to increase its target for renewable energy from 32 per cent of total power production to 45 per cent by 2030. “Companies are laying people off, at a time when the supply chain should be ramping up,” said Ben Backwell, chief executive of the Global Wind Energy Council.

Inflation and the rising cost of key materials, such as steel and copper, have pushed up the cost of making turbines. But long lead times and turbine prices that are locked in by customers years in advance have made it difficult for manufacturers to pass on higher costs. Many have now started raising prices and renegotiating contracts with customers. The industry is also grappling with supply chain delays, already strained by the lockdowns during the pandemic and exacerbated since the war in Ukraine.

Chinese competition is also increasing,” Backwell said Chinese manufacturers were “stepping in” in emerging markets, but could also move more into Europe. They had benefited from years of policy certainty at home, while western companies faced “stop-start” policymaking, and a large domestic steel industry, he said.

Capt'n Midnight · 19-10-2022 11:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759107#Comment_119759107

2019 storage capacities. -map https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/gas-storage-capacity/

In a normal winter 25-30% of EU gas used comes from storage. And this year consumption should be lower

"The total EU underground storage capacity is of 1100 TWh (this is around 100 bcm)" it's a quarter of annual EU gas consumption in 2020 of 399.6bcn so it could be more than a quarter of winter demand.

Graphic of filling up from - https://graphics.reuters.com/UKRAINE-CRISIS/EUROPE-GAS/zdvxozxzopx/

cnocbui · 19-10-2022 11:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768505#Comment_119768505

More steaming dung exiting from both sides of your mouth simultaneously.

Just because the UK decides to do something, doesn't mean any one else should. The UAE certainly aren't. Brexit, Boris, Truss and Hinkley, hey lets copy everything the Uk does and use that as an example of how things should be done, because they are obviously the country every intelligent person would want to emulate at the moment. As usual your logic belongs in another dimension.

The Irish wholesale electricity price in July was double that you quote for Hinkley - double. And quoting the strike price as a cost when the debate is about capital expenditure is an attempt to both confuse the issue and to mislead. The same sort of costing applies to onshore and offshore wind, which seems to have escaped your notice, and the Irish strike price is higher than that for Hinkley. Offshore winds strike price will be higher than the onshore as the capital outlay is vastly higher. But I suppose there is one advantage, in that the capacity factor is half that of nuclear so you are only paying out half as much...until you realise you need power all the time not half the time.

The reason I mentioned floating is because that is what Dr Meadhbh Connolly of the ESB said in her video they were planning. Neither she nor the ESB metioned sandbanks so undoubtedly they know more about what's needed than you do. Another attempt to mislead and misdirect.

The UAE cost of electricity, some of which is nuclear generated, is €0.08 a unit. My current rate is 265% higher, and it's partly based on renewables.

I'd rather be paying for nuclear than expensive renewables. So looks like your crap about cheap to run nuclear being a myth is another lie. And this just emphasis your dishonesty:

Fuel costs for nuclear plants are a minor proportion of total generating costs, though capital costs are greater than those for coal-fired plants and much greater than those for gas-fired plants.

System costs for nuclear power (as well as coal and gas-fired generation) are very much lower than for intermittent renewables.

Nuclear power plants are cheaper to operate

https://marketrealist.com/2015/01/nuclear-power-plants-cheaper-operate/

Pro – Cheap to run

Nuclear power plants are cheaper to run than their coal or gas rivals. It has been estimated that even factoring in costs such as managing radioactive fuel and disposal nuclear plants cost between 33 to 50% of a coal plant and 20 to 25% of a gas combined-cycle plant.

The amount of energy produced is also superior to most other forms. The US Department of Energy (DOE) estimates that to replace a 1GW nuclear power plant would require 2GW of coal or 3GW to 4GW from renewable sources to generate the same amount of electricity.

https://www.power-technology.com/analysis/nuclear-power-pros-cons/

ps200306 · 20-10-2022 12:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768505#Comment_119768505

The myth is that nuclear is expensive to build and cheap to run.

Hinkley-C is rated at 3.2GW At a guaranteed CPI index linked price of £92.50 per MWh(2012) which is now £118.58/MWh (Aug 2022)

£118.58 * 3200MW * 365.25 *24 = £3326311296

So the price is over €3.82Bn per year in today's money.

Your €3.95Bn would only feed the monster for 3.3 years out of a 35 year contract. ( Total £133 Bn for just 3.2GW , ie €41Bn per GW )

Hinkley is a planning disaster and has been called "the most expensive power station in the world". And yet the initial strike price was the same as the latest onshore wind in Ireland. If prices for wind go up by the same amount that they have in the past two years (not unlikely given the price rises reported above), onshore wind in Ireland will still be more expensive than Hinkley. What happened to the "cheapest form of power available"?

And that's for unreliable power output that doesn't include all the costs of transmission systems upgrades, backup generation, and all the associated paraphernalia that goes with wind. Wind power pricing -- expensive as it is -- is a lie. Irish windpower compares very unfavourably to the most expensive nuke on the planet. Costs of nuclear could be dramatically reduced by regulatory streamlining, and that's before you reckon with SMRs and 4th-gen. Hinkley is a 3rd-gen behemoth but at least would produce power 24/7 and has a design life of 60 years. Next gen nukes could improve things dramatically whereas "next gen wind" ... does such a thing even exist?

20-10-2022 1:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768741#Comment_119768741

I LOVE how you use the UAE as the starting point for your arguments.

They're like a mirror image of Ireland much more so than the UK

ginger22 · 20-10-2022 9:15am

https://gript.ie/germany-risks-becoming-industrial-museum-due-to-energy-crisis-says-business-leader/

KildareP · 20-10-2022 9:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119768505#Comment_119768505

It can't load balance,

No less than fossil based, unlike wind which can't load balance at all

it can't help with extra demand in winter

No less than fossil based, unlike wind which is not dispatchable to meet demand

it can't provide grid stability in winter

No less than fossil based, and unlike wind which needs extremely complex and expensive synchronisers and BESS farms

the electricity is too expensive to store

No more expensive than it would be for wind (ignoring the question as to why you need to store it), especially given wind generators will have to be compensated despite being only able to produce 40-50% of the time

as the largest generator on the grid there are large capital and running costs with providing it with backup and spinning reserve.

If large scale hydrogen storage works for wind, why would it not as a backup for nuclear?

And there's all the fossil fuel burnt while it's been delayed.

Just like we're doing waiting for more carbon friendly generation sources to come online.

20-10-2022 10:41am

Can't say I'm even a bit surprised

RTE news : Ireland failing to meet EU wastewater directives - EPA

http://www.rte.ie/news/2022/1020/1330259-epa-sewage-report/

cnocbui · 20-10-2022 10:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769657#Comment_119769657

Let me fix that for you...

Ireland failing

Ubbquittious · 20-10-2022 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769273#Comment_119769273

China will swoop in, the feckers.

kabakuyu · 20-10-2022 5:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119761920#Comment_119761920

Great news but what will the Greens do about the wood burners that they encouraged us to get(like the diesel cars), turns out the wood burners are lethal. I cant walk around my locality without being poisoned by them.Greens got it wrong again it seems.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/feb/15/wood-burners-emit-more-particle-pollution-than-traffic-uk-data-shows

20-10-2022 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119771671#Comment_119771671

I support your stance against air pollution

ginger22 · 20-10-2022 6:12pm

interesting read, is it real or conspiracy https://consumerchoicecenter.org/is-russia-funding-european-environmental-activists/

xxxxxxl · 20-10-2022 6:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769657#Comment_119769657

Imagine not creating a quango and using that money to fix things. IW is a disaster councils were underfunded but knew what they were doing IW has no clue. There have been more boil water notices and alike under its watch.

cunningrock · 20-10-2022 7:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764833#Comment_119764833

What's the jazz then of the plan to horse a load of turbines into the Atlantic so they end up on fire and storm pulverised to. Is it some kind of insurance scam we're all over looking

tom1ie · 20-10-2022 8:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764833#Comment_119764833

Ok Einstein how do wind turbines generate when there’s little to no wind? 🧐

I await your groundbreaking answer with bated breath.

You might also let us know how many new offshore wind farms will be built and generating electricity before next winter please.

20-10-2022 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119772418#Comment_119772418

lol

Pa ElGrande · 21-10-2022 8:09am

ENTSO-E is the European association for the cooperation of transmission system operators (TSOs) for electricity. Eirgrid (Rep. Ireland) & SONI (N. Ireland) are transmission system operator (TSO) while ESB Networks is the distribution system operator (DSO).

Red Silurian · 21-10-2022 10:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756710#Comment_119756710

Well it's probably difficult to make up figures like that and it's not completely unbelievable considering Chinas population, also to be fair China signed up to the Paris Agreement and if they were trying to massage figures they could have done better than that figure for coal.

I also agree that we should 100% not be doing trade deals with a country that has over 60% reliance on coal. The most ironic of these are the Tesla and MG electric cars being made at massive coal powered factories in China

Pa ElGrande · 21-10-2022 10:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119773987#Comment_119773987

China and Ireland did not sign on to same agreement at Paris in 2015. Normally when there is an agreement there is one document, one statement, that ALL the participants sign and agree to abide by. That's not what happened in 2015, each country wrote its own Intended Nationally Determined Contributions (INDC). There are only a collection of INDCs that don’t agree and that are not binding. Paris is an agreement to disagree and there is no global agreement to cut global emissions, you can find all the INDCs here. Irish politicians and bureaucrats bowed to the EU (i.e. Germany). When you see China and India signed up to the "Paris agreement", they did their own thing separate to everyone else.

Overlooked in the statistics from China's output is that these emissions come mostly from export oriented manufacturing and not from domestic consumption with much of the industry consisting of overseas manufacturing facilities of Western business enterprise. Although China is the largest economy in the world with a gross national GDP of $27 trillion in 2019 (and that is being questioned), this figure is driven largely by industry and by population and not by consumption and living standard. A partial list of Western business enterprises that operate their factories in China, provided by Jies world, shows many common household names. These factories and their products are of the West by the West and for the West but their emissions appear in China’s account. The West has exported its emissions to China.

An important sector of export oriented industrial production in China that contributes to much of the fossil fuel emissions noted above, is the manufacture of solar panels, wind turbines, and electric cars for export. The importer of these products benefits from emission reduction but the emissions for their manufacture accumulate in China’s emission account. In 2019 China exported about $18 billion of solar panels with total energy production capacity of more than 200 GW. The export of wind turbines that year was $12 billion with energy capacity of more than 400 MW. Thus, much of the West’s manufacturing emissions including the emissions from the manufacture of renewable energy equipment is offloaded to China. {Footnote: China’s domestically installed renewable energy capacity is about 400 GW divided almost equally between wind and solar}.

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