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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,961 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    will likely retain enough of those beliefs that it will affect their behaviour in western nations

    I think it is more likely that they are repulsed by such behaviour which is partly why they have sought a new life elsewhere.

    We see people in western society, born and raised westerners, with similar mindsets, your premise is to suggest the wester society would have no such beliefs if it wasn't for immigrants bringing them in.

    I understand completely that there are going to be some radicals who arrive, (or are open to being radicalised after they arrive) but the vast majority of people don't fall in to this category and I would rather not shut the door on all of them to prevent some arriving with unpleasant mindsets particularly when that mindset already exists in the country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Because we should always being looking to improve society through identifying and punishing any acceptable behaviour.

    It is the way human societies have progressed through millennia.

    None of these groups you are talking about (and the definition of tiny minority could do with being clarified) are saying that all men or all of society are guilty of these acts.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    At no point did I make the claim or suggest that westerners were absent these mindsets. In fact, I made no reference to what westerners did or didn't do. The focus was on the migrant groups, and the importance of the social conditioning they received prior to entry into the West. In other words, you're deflecting away from the position I proposed.

    Nobody is suggesting shutting out the entire population of a particular culture or belief system. Simply that we employ better ways to screen them, and to place some importance on determining whether they're a suitable fit for entry into western societies, and will respect the standard system of beliefs that do exist there.

    Oh, and in terms of modern migration patterns, migrants aren't moving to Ireland because they value our culture as being better (as they once did with regards to American culture). They're coming here for the economic success we've experienced, the high standards of living, and the range of supports available to people here. The days when people want to leave behind their own culture and embrace western values has mostly expired.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    At no point did I make the claim or suggest that westerners were absent these mindsets. In fact, I made no reference to what westerners did or didn't do. 

    So what. We've had this before, you don't get to dictate what other people put in their posts. I didn't say you said the above, I referred to this because it is factual and relevant.

    Oh, and in terms of modern migration patterns, migrants aren't moving to Ireland because they value our culture as being better (as they once did with regards to American culture). 

    What evidence have you to suggest this? Do you not think that people who have been persecuted for their religious beliefs, or sexual orientation, or because they challenged authority would not like to live in a community where they can live their life without fear of reprisals?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Anyone care to tell me in what way has Biden acted that can be deemed to be an embrace of the Woke Left and is an assault on culture and values?

    This is the issue with the right in the US right now, this man was threatened by his own parties supporters and a mock gallows set up to try to force him in to dismissing the instruction laid out in the constitution with respect to appointing a new President and this is his focus. All while the man who instigated the insurrection and subsequent demonising of Pence was the Republican President.

    Not to mention, that in the last year, Republicans have removed a womans right to decide what to do with her body in several states and are removing access to historically lauded novels in schools and libraries under the premise of protecting children when just yesterday, one of the Republican candidates in the upcoming elections in Arizona has quit when it emerged that he was arrested after getting caught masturbating outside a school. And on the same day it emerged that Texan schools are sending DNA kits to their students parents to help with identifying bodies in the case of the next mass shooting. And their media outlets are facilitating Kanye's flagrant attack on the Jewish community.

    Biden's administration meanwhile has introduced bills to develop infrastructure, fund micro-chip manufacturing in the US, to prevent price gouging by oil companies, to reduce the cost of medicines, to forgive some student loan debt and to support Ukraine fighting to save their very lives and country from invasion.

    There is zero doubt but the Republican mindset of today would have sided with Hitler in the 30's and counter to the supposed 'Christian' beliefs that the party holds, they would have hated practically everything about their saviour Jesus Christ and him everything about them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    I think it is more likely that they are repulsed by such behaviour which is partly why they have sought a new life elsewhere.

    Ah yes shure don't we get all the engineers, doctors and accountants. 🙄

    BTW stop conflating the toxic American environment with the rest of the world.

    We don't have right wing frothing at the mouth tv hosts, in fact we have the opposite.

    We have those that refuse to countenance anything wrong with their beloved pet groups, be they a home grown ethnic group or someone of the new Irish variety.

    Hell they refuse to reference these groups if the story is anything negative whereas they trumpet their identities if the story is anyway positive.

    We don't have proper news nor proper discussion anymore.

    BTW as for your initial OP, you are right there is a danger from the real right and it precisely because the former centre, never mind the former left, have folded going up their own ass in identity politics and throwing their own populace under the bus so that they can cowtow to corporates, social media types, celebrities, and voicferous NGOs.

    And why is it the group at fault or society at fault if it is to do with the homegrown majority, but it is always an individuals fault if it is to do with new arrivals of the multicultural variety ?

    Or does group responsibility only apply when it is western and most probably white?

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Today's news from the UK is just another example of how all the 'project fear' articles around Brexit were in fact entirely accurate and how the continued subservience to those who ruined the country continues to be allowed to run wild. PM for 45 days and removed caps on bankers pay and bonuses while crashing the pound and putting in action a chain of events which will see people paying tens of thousands of pounds more over the duration of their mortgage. Shocking behaviour.

    Be interesting to see who Murdoch and the rest want as a PM now. Saw a news article yesterday with an audio clip of a 94 year old man who had fallen and was waiting for an ambulance for over 5 hours. He later died in hospital. This is a direct consequence of the policies the right wing have enacted for several years and the NHS might never come back from it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You should grab a tea/coffee and read the thread before assuming what it is I am saying. You'll probably end up editing your post significantly. Or at least you should.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    What ?

    You made comment about right wing commentators and then put Fox News or Tucker ar**hole?

    I made reference to difference of media in this country, as not in America.

    And no I didn't read entire thread because it is full of the usual merry go round shyte that these threads always turn into with the usual references to woke, incels, housing, trans, illegal immigrants amnesty, trump, etc, etc.

    You are very fond of lecturing to others what they should post about.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You made comment about right wing commentators and then put Fox News or Tucker ar**hole?

    There's nearly 600 posts on the thread, I'd imagine 20 - 30% or so are mine at this . And here you are presuming what they all say from a single one while admitting you haven't read much more.

    I don't know what to tell you. You're in good company here though with trying to make me the focus instead of challenging the premise of the thread. Pretty much exactly what I expected, those who spend so much time on threads complaining about Liberals or Left Wing ideals aren't going to like the reality being pointed out to them.

    And virtually no one has challenged that reality, we've had 3 angles or response, Those who focus on me and my motivation, those who tried to 'both sides' everything and those who tried to make the thread in to something it wasn't just to attempt to negate the point being made. We did have a guy trying to blame up to 17K migrants for this housing issues in Ireland rather than the fact that there are 160K odd properties lying vacant but to be honest, all that did was prove my point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,961 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Conservatives meltdown over inclusivity again

    Shout out to the gun nut christian who stood up, described herself thusly, and chewed out the other parents for being so hateful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,826 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    When I watch stuff like that I'm struck by how much like satire this news looks.

    I really can't fathom how stupid some of these peoples beliefs are either and it's only a short clip.


    You have one Karen worried that (warning I'm paraphrasing from here on in) make believe stuff like transgenderism is warping kid minds and another Karen worried by the effects of totally real Witchcraft might have on the kids. Throw in the christian guy in a baseball gap.

    The most reasonable person introduces themselves as a gun nut.

    I mean you can't even parody this stuff it's surreal



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,961 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Some MAGA/Ultra-MAGA want to break away from the labeling of Conservatism.

    So what kind of politics should conservatives today, as inheritors of a failed movement, adopt? For starters, they should stop thinking of themselves as conservatives (much less as Republicans) and start thinking of themselves as radicals, restorationists, and counterrevolutionaries. Indeed, that is what they are, whether they embrace those labels or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    I nominate Super conservatism. Just like regular conservatism but with some significant differences.

    Super conservatism is at least 6 inches taller.

    It has a flying motorcycle.

    And a jar of marmalade that we believe makes you even more conservative.

    Satire ofc




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    I think it is more likely that they are repulsed by such behaviour which is partly why they have sought a new life elsewhere.

    Absolute garbage. Do you think people are leaving countries to come to Ireland because their own government's policies are nasty to transexuals and the likes?

    LOLs at the absolute state of this thinking.

    They are leaving countries first and foremost for the economic prospects - not because some random people they most likely don't know of identifies as the opposite sex. To put it into perspective, how many native Irish people do you think are emigrating as a protest against the poor outcomes for Dads in the family courts here? Or because they are "repulsed" by such outcomes?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Was it bat man and spiderman in the UK that only got that attention for the lengths they had to go to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,287 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Maybe they should use a new acronym?

    Like CUNT

    Conservatives Under New Terminology.

    That would work for nearly everyone and it couldn't be more fitting either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Nothing new to us in the old EU unless you live in the USA why do we care.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,287 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Mere observation of lunatics in America doesn't equate to caring.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,826 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Why is the focus always on trans with a certain cohort of posters.

    The poster Tell me how did not reference Trans so why would you assume that attitudes to trans is why immigrants are coming here. It is a minority issue so for you to assume that is the only issue immigrants might move because of says a lot more about you than anything else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    It is quite funny that what the loons now label conservatism would have just been consensus about a decade ago

    Men are not women - that was not a conservative viewpoint. It still isnt no matter how hard its pushed



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    You'd swear this stuff never goes on in Europe 😐

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,958 ✭✭✭circadian


    "Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics""

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics


    We were much more accepting and open to discourse before social media became a part of everyone's daily lives. A lot of these arguments where people are fundamental in their position are the result of culture wars and sowing division. The thing here is, bad actors (more than just the Russians would benefit from this) wanted to destabilise the USA. Instead they got something better. The entire world is growing increasingly polarised by this type of discourse and people are having their beliefs reinforced by feedback loops, so when they get challenged it's incomprehensible to have a differing opinion.


    Yes, there is danger coming from the "right", also the "left" but the root cause of that is in how facts are now being presented to us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    The premise of your thread just seems to be backed up by incessant posting about what is happening in the USA, one of the most polarised fooked up countries in the world right now.

    And the loonies on the far left are as much to blame for that.

    Where else has all the shyte about identity politics originated?

    Where else has all the shyte about white privilege originated?

    You now have the moronic modern attitude that Irish people owe non white people (usually black for the most part) something because we just happen to be white.

    FFS we were colonised and suffered genocidal attacks for centuries.

    And get this if you look at the history of huge chunks of white people in different countries across Europe you find they suffered similar.

    Yet we are all supposed to be responsible and make penance for what was done by certain nationalities of white people.

    This is the type of moronic trash that has originated in the US and is bought into by the left liberals in this country.

    And then you have the ultra religious on the other side, and the "good old boys" whose ancestors were riding around burning crosses and lynching black guys for daring to look at a white woman up to half a century ago.

    The USA is not the fooking world and stop trying to spread it's fooked up mentality, both sides of it, to the rest of us.

    Yes Europe has issues, always had, but over last 70 odd years we moved a long way.

    We became one of the most liberal areas in the world.

    But no that is not good enough. We have to bend over backwards, throw open our borders to some of the most backwards minded people in the world, adopt ridiculous attitudes to placate certain individuals view of themselves simply because we are European.

    At least the Eastern Europeans who only recently threw off their own yoke of oppression have said screw that.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,961 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Where else has all the shyte about identity politics originated?

    Where else has all the shyte about white privilege originated?

    Giving the USA a lot of **** credit when they've been around far less time than even the Catholic vs. Protestant turf war. "Identity Politics"

    Remind me how the British Empire regarded non-white people?

    The USA might be a big pain in your arse but don't make them out to be more than they are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Well done, you hit the nonsense hat trick. Not understanding what has been written in the thread, trying to both sides the argument, and trying to deflect from the point being made without challenging it.

    I've frequently, on this thread, referred to issues at play in the UK, in Europe, in Ireland and of course the US. I live in the US and that aside, it is an influencer world wide in terms of context on societal, economic, political issues, etc, etc. We have several threads on here frequently related to topics US and many of them in this forum. We had a thread specifically set up to speak negatively about issues around immigration in Sweden and there were no calls from those asking me to only talk about Ireland here saying similar on that one.

    And talking about the worst examples of far right actions in recent history is ignoring the fact that most people are still suffering from much less draconian actions that anything like that. The UK economy and society has been decimated because of the right wing ideals of several influential forces over an extended period. Reduction in investment in policing and healthcare coupled with an increase in scaremongering and false promises led that country to Brexit and no one can pretend that what has happened since is a good thing.

    In Ireland, we continue to see massive housing concerns for people in a large part because of the actions of successive governments with with respect to the housing market and regulations and so on.

    The issues in the US are widely known with access to healthcare, cost of education, systemic racism and rampant capitalism meaning that people are financially worse off now then they have been for generations, despite earning higher money than those before them. And the US is dangerously close to flat out fascism taking control in several states if not nationally again in the current environment that has seen rights stripped from women and heads starting to turn towards those in same sex marriages and interracial marriages.

    And the entire planet is literally going full steam ahead towards a climate disaster that is going to lead to suffering for literally billions of people due to the refusal to enact meaningful climate protection controls.

    All of these scenarios are the outcome of, or are being made worse by, right wing ideologies. No one has suggested otherwise in the thread so far, please feel free to do so and to explain how rather than just wishing I stopped highlighting it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Given you edited the original post, I will respond to this bit here.

    But no that is not good enough. We have to bend over backwards, throw open our borders to some of the most backwards minded people in the world, adopt ridiculous attitudes to placate certain individuals view of themselves simply because we are European.

    Literally no one with any significant amount of power or influence is calling for such a thing. But you and others like you trot out this strawman frequently so you can collectively give it a kicking while ignoring what is really negatively impacting the society in which you live.

    One of the most active threads in this forum is contributed to by many of the people complaining about this thread and that is about 'wokism of the day' where people spend time getting annoyed at a story about someone who said they weren't a big fan of a particular emoji or whatever and meanwhile, you guys are happy to support those who use phrases like 'Lefty Leaning' and "Woke' while they are literally standing behind you with a grin on their face and a bottle of lube in their hands.

    It would be quite entertaining if the rest of us didn't have to live with the consequences of this as much as we do.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Well done, you hit the nonsense hat trick. Not understanding what has been written in the thread, trying to both sides the argument, and trying to deflect from the point being made without challenging it.

    A poster boy response which would make the very point in the thread "Why is there hostility towards centrists on social media?" the OP there is trying to make.

    And talking about the worst examples of far right actions in recent history is ignoring the fact that most people are still suffering from much less draconian actions that anything like that. The UK economy and society has been decimated because of the right wing ideals of several influential forces over an extended period. Reduction in investment in policing and healthcare coupled with an increase in scaremongering and false promises led that country to Brexit and no one can pretend that what has happened since is a good thing.

    What has happened since Brexit is the globalists loosing their proverbial crap over it all. The political class in the UK, be they Tory or Labour have never had, deep down the guts for going along with Brexit and never believed the public would vote for it. This was very obvious with the crap that went on with Theresa May. At least BoJo stuck to his guns somewhat. Recently, when Kwasi Kwarteng tried to get his budget across the line, the globalists again lost their crap and using their influence in The City Of London almost collapsed a democratically elected government.

    In Ireland, we continue to see massive housing concerns for people in a large part because of the actions of successive governments with with respect to the housing market and regulations and so on.

    Again the globalists sticking their oar in, using the power of money to bully their way to getting lax laws and loopholes passed that favour their activities in maximising profit. The left and liberals are the globalists useful tools/fools in campaigning for open borders, anti-family measures and thus ensure as many people as possible are chasing a small housing stock. You have greenies adding more fuel to the fire stating that we risk failing "climate targets" if we build too many houses! A fookin laughing stock.

    And the entire planet is literally going full steam ahead towards a climate disaster that is going to lead to suffering for literally billions of people due to the refusal to enact meaningful climate protection controls.

    More absolute garbage. The globalists must be pi$$ing themselves laughing at how the idiot green/left wing/watermelons have done their dirty work in convincing the population that the fault of climate change is on every individual - and not on the handful of companies that control everything from Nunavut to Antarctica.

    All of these scenarios are the outcome of, or are being made worse by, right wing ideologies.

    All of these scenarios are the outcome of left wing policies coupled with globalist financial backing, nothing more, nothing less. The only way out of this mess is for centre-right nationalist governments to take over and return to sovereign nations to determine their own success with carefully selected trade deals and strict immigration policies. Any help to third and second world countries should be in the form of direct spending in those poorer nations, not importing their middle classes which is currently done and thus ensuring those nations will never develop.



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