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Gallagher Premiership 2022-2023 Season

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Interesting to get more background on it, the move to coventry was never seen as a good idea, it might not have been hailed as a bad one but at the time nobody felt it was a great idea.

    Rugby clubs the world over are parochial, they are community based with underage structures a major part of that and thats a big part of their success with few exceptions. The stade francais merger debacle of a few years ago is the perfect example.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is the bond indenture here - https://www.rns-pdf.londonstockexchange.com/rns/3422L_-2015-4-26.pdf

    It's all laid out on pg 51 - Derek Richardson gave a shareholder loan of c. £20m to the club (which likely financed the Coventry stadium acquisition), and was receiving £10m of that back as part of this transaction.

    The Restricted Payments provision of the indenture restricted his ability to get anymore of his £10m back except in very limited circumstances, and he specifically restructured his shareholder loan to rank subordinate to the bond.

    I think Jim Hamilton is putting two and two together here and getting £15m, and it looks wrong based on that. It's a pretty scandalous thing for him to say on a rugby podcast even though he admits he doesn't know. This bond indenture is publicly available, and the info is right there in black and white.


    FYI: This is what the £35m went on: (from pg 57 - Use of Proceeds).

    Use of Proceeds The proceeds from the issue of the Bonds will be used by Wasps Holdings and ACL for the following purposes:

    (a) to repay in full the facility provided to ACL by CCC;

    (b) to repay in full the Close Leasing Facility;

    (c) to part repay to Derek Richardson an amount of up to £10 million on or after the Issue Date pursuant to the Shareholder Loan. If £10 million is repaid, this will leave a remaining balance of £10,361,658 under the Shareholder Loan;

    (d) to fund the Interest Service Reserve Account, as detailed in the terms and conditions of the Bonds and under Section 3 (Information About the Bonds – How will the Bonds be secured?”); and

    (e) for general working capital purposes of ACL and Wasps Holdings. All existing security granted by the Group to CCC and Close Leasing Limited in relation to the facilities described above will be released on the date that the Bonds are issued.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Holy ****!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    What a mess. Covid did not help either! A perfect storm. Wasps moving away from London struck me as strange. As a business decision, it looks now like a disaster. To salvage the club, could they have sold the stadium? Surely they'd have cleared their debts and stayed solvent?

    Wasps are a big name in English rugby. What a shame to see this happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Wasps probably would have gone bankrupt if they stayed in London.


    It was move or die.


    No they couldn't have sold the stadium. They didn't really own it. They had a very long term lease that restricted what they could do with the stadium.


    Any sale made by the administrator will probably be at discount rates for this reason.


    Like the P shares on all the clubs balance sheet an asset that can never be sold may as well have no value.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,005 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I notice Leicester don't have a game this weekend, or next weekend, or the following weekend. They last played 16 Oct, next game 11 Nov, then 27 Nov. One game in 6 weeks (not including cup), that's a bit crap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Its a pity they couldn't rearrange the cup game from midweek to this weekend. Newcastle who they played midweek in the cup don't have a fixture this weekend.


    They are also playing a friendly with Italy A in a few weeks to fill the gaps in and keep people match fit iirc.


    It's worth noting that Leicester had a mini cash flow crisis losing 2 home games in a row after Wasps and Worcester collapsed.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Kidney and Kiss's "Irish" go down to Gloucester 21- 22 in an interesting game. Three tries by Argentinian hookers and the winning score was a DG by Hastings from about 55 metres.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,128 ✭✭✭OldRio


    From what I could gather, a meeting of representatives from the remaining teams took place this week.

    They couldn't agree on a new fixture list. Everyone fighting their own quarter. Noone thinking of the bigger picture. (I'd hazard a guess at too many egos)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,005 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    It's ridiculous, only 4 games each weekend, that means only 8 teams playing and 3 not. Obviously the odd number of teams mean one won't be playing each weekend but having two others sitting out is just stupid and must undermine sponsorship and tv deals.

    They should recast the fixture list from Christmas. Bristol were due to host Wasps on NYE, surely that is one of the most commercially attractive matchdays so they should play someone else instead. The inability to agree something further damages the leagues credibility.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,128 ✭✭✭OldRio




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    They'd burn through the fixtures quicker playing 5 games a week, I suppose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    I think if they realigned the fixture list one of the goals would be to give weekends to the cup.


    Maybe there would be some more value in the cup competition if the games were on weekends rather than mid week between fixtures.


    That said there is an argument that fitst teamers would be used in the cup and doing that sort of move would punish those with a deeper squad and a weaker first team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,005 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    They could have fewer games clashing with internationals, surely that would be good for all concerned.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Owen Farrell having a mare


    Causing a penalty to be reversed followed by YC for a trip



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    I dont think i would ever have an ounce of sympathy for sarries but it looked like they are being rode sideways by this ref



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Based on that debatable penalty against McFarland? I assume you've no problem with Mako's yellow card and penalty try?


    In other news, Van Graaaaaaaaannnnnn may be about to get his first win since the 1840's. (Bath 14 - 0 up V Saints at HT)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Problem there is that it appears that the clubs with fewer international players want to play the teams that will be depleted during the international season!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    mako clearly wrong and farrell doing a terrible job talking with the ref



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Itoje leading with elbow there?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Normally doesnt get pinged unless the arm comes out from the body, itoje tucked the ball and kept his arms tight.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Inevitable finish - Exeter aren't going to win much unless they can stop giving away scrum penalties.

    Tom Foley seems to have improved as a referee this season now that he's getting the bigger games. (I wonder has Karl Dickson been relegated to the lower leagues, if so, I'm not surprised. He was rubbish in the Saints - Leicester game.)

    And van Graaaaaaan has done it! Bath 27 - 14 Saints.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Jackman in indo reckons one more premiership club are about to to bust



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Unbeaten Sale were stuffed by Quins this afternoon! FT 13 - 29.

    The quins pack plus Care and Smith played the Sharks off the park. It's hard to describe how poor Sale were, so suffice to say that Manu was about as useful as a spare wheel on a tank.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭PMC83


    if so that could be it for the prem in its current form.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    I wouldn't be surprised. Especially as so many people have been arguing for a 11 team premiership. No one has been arguing for relegation.


    The number of teams in the premiership can't be cut unless all p share holders agree. If a club goes into administration they can be forced to sell their p shares to the league.


    It never struck me as likely that someone would vote to relegate themselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203




  • Subscribers Posts: 41,787 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    trimming to make way for a couple or few of ex wasps / worcesters surely



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Wow! Who would come in? The premiership needs a rethink! There needs to be some kind of way to promote it and attract more supporters.

    Good for Biggar. Fine player and a competitor.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,146 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    What would you suggest as a rethink and change to attract more supporters?



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