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Leinster v Munster match thread

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Morgan Squeaking Wall


    Not at all.

    Immediately followed by

    Why don’t we discuss the posters calling JOD a fool and Kleyn a scumbag?

    Just amazing.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    No thoughts on those posts? After all you’re against shutting down discussion.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Morgan Squeaking Wall


    Not really no. I don't really care what people say about JOD or Kleyn.

    After all you’re against shutting down discussion.

    What kind of batshit crazy logic is this? "ANSWER MY QUESTION OR ELSE YOU'RE TRYING TO SHUT DOWN THE CONVERSATION WHAAA" .

    You feel free to discuss it all you like.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Well exactly. But you seemed to have a problem with me discussing whatever I liked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,330 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Carbery was decent last night, backing up another good display last week.

    While he's a convenient social media scapegoat, he is still one of the best players Munster have and their problems run much deeper than him.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    To be fair, I think we’ve seen enough in the past 2 weeks, with injury depleted squads to think things are going in the right direction.

    If they can back that up with a win against Ulster in Thomond, that’d be further signs of improvement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    Well if you call shovelling ball across an ineffective back line a decent performance then fair enough.

    He had some decent kicks but that was the best of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,330 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Yeah I'd agree with that.

    My concern (and you knew I'd have one...) is that Munster need a very high conversion rate from "exciting prospect" to "proven European level" to get the squad to where it needs to be. Front row continues to be a massive weakness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    The quality of ball can have a big impact on what a 10 can do with it, and it doesn't help that we measure the time it takes Murray to do anything from the base using stone erosion



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Ya, it’s been our problem position for 3 seasons or more now.

    I think there could be a case to bring in a marquee TH for a season or 2 after the RWC to give Knox and Salanoa time to improve.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    You could argue that the poor service from Murray limited his opportunity but we’ll have to hold judgement on that until something changes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    Yes, absolutely agree on that but it’s speculation until we see some evidence for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    We have seen glimpses of what he can do. But the service he was getting was crap and the two guys outside him are very average.

    I think he made a bad choice influenced by Schmidt in 2018.


    Munster need to invest in Crowley at 10 and use Healy as a 10/12.


    Fekitoa Is a waste of resources if the pack cannot deliver.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    You ask don't have to reply to each other either, it's been ridiculously tedious at this stage.


    On the game, Leinster were extremely profligate in the first half. They butchered at least 2 line breaks on the 22 which should have resulted in tries, and twice held up over the line when some more clever play would have resulted in tries. Going in one point up when Munster had barely a sneeze in the Leinster 22 was a very poor return, mainly caused by greediness, poor execution and terrible ball handling.

    Munster improved immediately when Patterson came on and you could see what the game plan was, resulting in plenty of line breaks. I'd love to see a stat of the amount of line breaks Munster got after Patterson came on, was compared to beforehand.

    I thought Knox was very lucky to survive with a yellow, I fcuking HATE it when players on the ground are rucked by players flying in, it should be outlawed immediately. Players not on their feet are out of the game, therefore should not be a legitimate ruck target.

    I have some sympathy for kleyn, nothing he could have done with the jump and the following trajectory, except the motion to bring his arms down onto Osborne was an act of foul play. Yellow was the right result.

    On the crowd, 45k was fantastic. Anyone complaining about chatter or poetry or event junkies must have never been to a Leinster provincial derby game in the Aviva before, it's always the same. You get the day trippers and the more the merrier in my opinion, more dolla for the coffers.

    I thought Doris was my MOTM, really no idea how lmcg got it, as I could probably pick 4 or 5 Leinster players more deserving, but hey, when you're at the game you get a different view than the TV. Sexton was subdued but still marshalled the team around the pitch. I could definitely see a different gameplan with ball in hand in phased play by Leinster. They get set up quite tight, usually not more than 25 meters between 10 and wing, and then they explode into patterns when the ball is released. They definitely make decisions on the fly depending on what the defense does, and you can see how they can manipulate inexperience in a defending line. They also swap positions a hell of a lot. Yesterday in the first half there was lots of occasions when Osborne was inside ringrose, who was on the wing. I think Leinster finished with Russell at 15, ringrose on the wing with Ross Byrne at 12 and henshaw at 13. Henshaw was so strong yesterday, while ringrose was again the best back on the pitch.

    I thought frawley was quite. I certainly don't think 15 is his position, he's more effective at 12 or 10, though I understand the reasons he started there. Could he possibly start at 10 next weekend?

    Munster showed sparks of what they are capable of and it's a testament to the second half performance that they were within a shot of a LBP going into the last few minutes.



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  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Hahahaha

    @adox


    @awec

    For fcuk sake mods, can u not simply ban this idiots IP at this stage?

    Is that not an option with this new host??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    On rewatch, the difference in power between the respective packs was notable. Munster just couldn't get anything from their attacking maul inside Leinster's 22. The most telling moment was around the 66 minute mark. Munster had a 5m attacking marl, couldn't push over, went through the phases without making a metre and where then counter rucked off their own ball. That extra bit of power for Leinster was crucial. It was Henshaw ploughing through Ahern as well.

    Leinster's attacking maul was also excellent. Mowed through a few times and despite being held up over the line.

    In phase play I think Leinster's carrying game was simply more effective too. Our forwards were coming onto the ball at greater speed and making it beyond the gainline. It opened up more space in the line which is why we saw so many line breaks, especially in the first half. Munster weren't hitting the line at anywhere near the same speed and got stopped too frequently.

    Doris was the outstanding forward on the pitch today. Carrying on his excellent form from the summer tour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,422 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I agree with Ray, it’s Rock boys fault that I’m overweight. Bunch of feeders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,631 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers



    Excellent post.



    Anyone who can structure sentences so coherently with near flawless punctuation after that much alcohol deserves massive credit, lets not get to bogged down in what was actually said however as that would take the gloss off what I consider post of the year so far.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,631 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Just an idea from Rays excellent post above but Does anyone else think Jean Kleyn should run for election as the sinn fein candidate in Willie O’Deas constituency?



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    And we all know when that happens you have lost…

    …it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    That happened a long time ago. I’m thinking too many concussions at this stage.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    On rewatch, the difference in power between the respective packs was notable. Munster just couldn't get anything from their attacking maul inside Leinster's 22.

    Kleyn is huge for us at maul time, both offensively and defensively. You could see the difference when he was off, both during yellow card and when he was replaced.

    And not the first time that’s happened this season, let alone previous years.

    He’s much maligned but he’s so important to Munster in Snyman’s absence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,019 ✭✭✭✭adox


    Eh I think you have the wrong poster. I haven’t even posted on this thread!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I posted the below on the 6th of March in the General Rugby Thread. Never thought it would eventually lead to me being the reincarnation of John Charles McQuaid.

    Anyone watching Blackrock vs Terenure College? Schools Cup QF live on Premier Sports right now.

    It's an utter demolition job from Blackrock so far. They're winning 22-0 after 22 minutes. Seems to be a big power mismatch between the two sides. Blackrock are winning all the collisions. Their footballing skills are very good as well. Some excellent offloading and support lines being run. They're also good at identifying space out wide and shifting it quickly. Their hooker is a flier. Keeping him out wide to use his speed in one of ones.

    Poor Terenure just haven't been in it at all. Barely had possession and are getting smashed at the ruck and scrum.

    Edit: 29-0 after 30 minutes now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,627 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    yeah, we were down on power with injuries to so many key players.

    I thought we actually overperformed given the personnel we had available



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Morgan Squeaking Wall


    Look, you're a menace and that's the end of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,336 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    With all due respect, I think awec has better things to do on a Saturday night and Sunday morning than read through the ten pages of horse manure that's been posted on this thread.

    I'd actually leave this poster off - since the pure radical out-of-left-field nature of the post has somehow managed to end ten pages of back and forth arguing and has united the boards rugby community.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,757 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Leinster will be disappointed with their performance, left 20-30 points out there. Not sure why munster would take anything from they game, it was incredibly one sided, the scoreline was close for a while because Leinster butchered chance after chance. It was a pretty dire watch too, 40 seconds to take a line out, Murray having a Mexican stand off with the rugby ball at the back of every ruck..


    Also the seats they give to season ticket holders in the Aviva are just dreadful. That bottom tier is so shallow you can't see a thing



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Apologies, the @ function here is screwed up. It was meant for the other poster I "at'ed" in the post, and unfortunately once an @ is selected it can't be removed for some stupid reason



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  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    He doesn't have to read ten pages of crap one I've notified him, that's the whole reason for the @



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    He's a very poor level troll at this stage, sad that he's nothing better to do himself on a Sunday morning



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    In large part because of the personnel we were missing and also the personnel we were up against. It’s still only our 6th game under the new management team also.

    It’s an indication of where Munster are, but there are reasons to be positive there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,172 ✭✭✭OldRio


    If ever there was a cry for help that was it. My goodness, how terribly sad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    A bad faith argument is one where no respect is given to the point of view of the other person, so you in fact have been arguing in bad faith, and you keep using that phrase incorrectly.

    “A person engaged in bad faith does not accept the other person as s/he is, but demands that s/he change in order to satisfy his/her requirements or to accept his/her will.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    That's not what that means. And also again fails to actually address what was being discussed.

    So well done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I added a definition there, what’s your definition so because you have used that phrase so many times now I’m curious what you think it means.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    It's what you're doing right now, actually. We went over this last night, including the context in which the argument was made. So satisfy yourself reading through that. I won't bother anymore.

    Post edited by Clegg on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Yes, good job reporting to the authorities - like people used to report on their neighbours to the Stasi in East Germany.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    That's a very good spot. The TV replays and commentators focused on the offload, but not that Ringrose had made his way from the other wing in anticipation of the attack. It's the sign of a well coached side and an excellent player that he knew the pass would come and that he got in position to receive it.

    Ringrose has put in three motm worthy performances in a row. Got the award vs the Sharks, and was our best player against Connacht even though he didn't get the nod. McGrath played well last night but Doris or Ringrose were better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I think some of Ryan's actions at the breakdown are quite questionable; the way he flies in making no attempt to stay on his feet, and showing little to no concern for his own safety or that of others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    After watching it again, I thought that G Coombes was quite good. He was part of an overwhelmed pack and he competed and put in a big shift. His workrate was great. Hodnett too was industrious. But, Loughman was my pick of the Munster pack. He was mullered at tight head, but at loose head he was very good. I think he's going to get into the national squad.

    Rowntree imo, should move on from Kilcoyne. Loughmsn and Wycherly should be the focus. Both are younger and I think both are better scrummagers. It's also hard to criticize Knox, he's basically a new born in terms of a tight head. Whether he develops into a top end tight head, is another thing. I would use him going forward.

    From a Leinster perspective, the amount of errors is killing them. They will not beat the elite sides unless they eliminate the errors! They really have not clicked fully yet. Again. Deegan was brilliant. I was pleased to see him put in a good performance. JOB was very good again. He's becoming a fantastic player. Very strong under the high ball and good in defense.

    The match itself was ok. The sloppiness added to the spectacle. I would think the rematch will be a better game. Munster will have their wounded back and should be clicking better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,424 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    Ah if you can't take the piss out of your own fanbase, who can you take the piss out of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Healy is a speed bump. You used to he able to get away with that at 10 but its tough. You absolutely cannot get away with that at 12.

    I’m not just basing that on his missed tackle yesterday on mcgrath. Its basically every time i see him play.

    Looking through the other provinces, there arent really any good depth options available next summer. So, they probably keep him as third 10.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Luke McGrath is a deceptively strong carrier to be fair. Always makes good metres when he's running on to a pass. Carried through Barron earlier in the game and also Kilcoyne for the try as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Hawkshaw ran over healy in the connacht game and there are other examples. It’s not a one time thing.

    I’ll be honest though. I’ve never rated him so i might be biased.

    He has a great boot and he might have the best long range pass in ireland. And, thats it.

    He makes run pass kick decisions early and too far from the line so defenders can very often tell what he is doing. That decision is almost always run sideways and shovel it on.

    i just dont think he has very good instincts and he is too big a man to be such a weak tackler.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I find the levels of praise Munster are getting for this match extraordinary. The only thing that stopped Leinster from racking up a cricket score, was Leinster. They left about four easy tries out there in the first half.

    I know they had a lot of injuries, and they showed a lot of fight, to be fair to them. But let's not make it into something it wasn't. Leinster dominated that game but were just extremely wasteful. They cut through Munster with ease multiple times around the halfway line, only to make basic errors in the 22. McGrath going himself when he should have passed. Healy flinging it into Osborne's face. Sheehan stupidly diving over the line and getting held up when he should have just recycled and countless other knock ons from various players.

    I'm not trying to have a go at Munster here. I think they acquitted themselves really well given their circumstances. Crowley is a baller. And I think they're clearly improving. But I'm hearing stuff like "they caused Leinster huge problems" and "Leinster got out of jail" and its rubbish. Leinster caused Leinster huge problems.



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