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Random EV thoughts.....

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,079 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    How much was an Up new here in Ireland? Surely if they could get the eUp here around €20-22k they'd sell bucket loads?



  • Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭pron


    Given most current EVs are getting in/around 12-18 kWh / 100km .. the above suggesting 6kW / 100km seems ambitious, even for Tesla!

    Has any manufacturer dropped below 10kWh / 100km in the real world, as opposed to on twitter?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah we're still waiting on that $35k Model 3 😜

    I'm not saying Tesla's new small car won't be super efficient but they've been known to be a tad optimistic with their WLTP range estimates


    I think in that segment you'll be running up against concessions on the size of the vehicle. It's hard to make a super streamlined car the size of an E-Up and still have a usable boot. In any case if the car spends 90% of its life at 40km/h or less then aerodynamics doesn't have as big an effect as the general efficiency of the platform

    Still, it's going to be very interesting to see where Tesla go with their budget platform. Personally I think there's certain expectations of a Tesla (big screen, autopilot) which don't work with a budget car. I'd say it's more likely they'll go with a hot hatch type of car

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭eagerv




  • Registered Users Posts: 65,395 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Agreed, I think it simply isn't possible. The most efficient EVs ever made like the Tesla Model 3 / Y and Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh do about 14kWh / 100km WLTP. Even with a car half the weight of a Model 3 (this is only possible on a EU road legal car if the body is carbon fibre and the battery has zero weight), you wouldn't halve the consumption.

    Even 10kWh / 100km in the WLTP cycle would be a very ambitious target


    6kWh / 100km in a small efficient EV in a hypermiling run? Yes sure. But not in a WLTP test.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,048 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Anyone any idea what this car or make is that was seen testing in Dublin today?


    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭mailforkev


    Xpeng G9 I think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,395 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Nio ES6 / ES7?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,343 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Probably had to abandon it because they couldn’t find a DC charger!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,395 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    They did find one and plugged in but then a Leaf rocked up and their charge stopped when the Leaf owner plugged the CHAdeMO in 😂



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Maybe they'll make it a pedelec 😂

    Wasn't there a Mercedes concept that got something like 10kWh/100km average? That's probably as close to state of the art as there is at the moment

    I saw something recently about how the next generation of electric motors will be about half the weight of the current ones.

    And I guess chassis integrated batteries would save some weight, as well as being cheaper to produce

    Still... you'd need a step change in efficiency to cover that gap, and I don't see how it's possible, let alone on a car worth $25k

    There's also the consideration of whether Tesla actually wants to make a cheap car. As I said, it doesn't really fit in with their current lineup

    If they get costs down by 50% (which I actually think is possible, if some concessions are made to range) I'm not sure that'll translate into a 50% drop in price. Elon does like money after all, and he does have shareholders to impress

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I pretty much agree with that assessment. However, on raw efficiency numbers, the FIAT 500 electric is more efficient than any of the cars you mention, at 12.53 kWh/100km on WLTP (320 km combined range, 42 kWh gross battery capacity). If you loosen the definition of “EV” a little, you have the Citroën Ami clocking in at a pretty spectacular 7.85 kWh/100 km (70 km WLTP from 5.5 kWh), but that’s on a modified WLTP test due to the very low top speed. There’s a good handful of cars on the market now that are under 14 kWh/100 km WLTP - I wouldn’t consider it to be a spectacular figure.

    If you don’t put a lower limit on size, the weight target is only just reachable, but not with any great range. That 500e weighs 1365 kg, which is light for an EV, but in “car” terms, it’s really not (it’s about the weight of a diesel 4-door hatchback). There is a smaller EV, though: The Smart EQ ForTwo weighs 1125 kg, which might not be half the weight of a Model 3, but it’s near enough 60% of the typical figure. That car turns out to not be very efficient, though, at around 16 kWh/ 100km - but that’s a mix of the penalty of retrofitting an EV into an ICE platform, and the aerodynamic penalty of such a short vehicle - which brings up the other problem...

    The WLTP test has two distinct parts: the urban cycle has lots of stops and starts, a pattern which really rewards cars with low kerb-weight; while the extra-urban cycle is constant high-speed driving that rewards vehicles with lower aerodynamic drag. Those are conflicting goals: short cars weigh a lot less but have high drag; long cars are more aerodynamically efficient but a lot heavier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭cannco253


    I see Smacs has finally received approval for the Ennis plaza. I wonder how many chargers will be installed? I remember the initial planning application specifically mentioned a large number of charging points.

    It will be great to have a decent location to charge on that stretch of the motorway.




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,809 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Seen this today....

    Basically EV fires reported following Hurricane Ian in Florida.

    Believed to be caused by saltwater when EVs submerged in floods....

    hard to get a handle on the significance of it as a lot of focus on the issues of handling an EV fire per se rather then the fact EVs went on fire.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Sponsored by Toyota, or any of the big companies thus far left behind in the EV race 😀



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,316 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Read it last week alright.

    I was at a Fire Safety Conference last week (Institute of Fire Engineers) and we were discussing EV Fires, well Lithium Fires in general as there’s been a few close calls with eBikes and Scooters in the Dublin City Area. No EV’s yet but the next big thing is basements and EV parking. My Employer (DFB/DCC) deal with the design, so Fire Safety Certificates and then when we are on Site attempting to encourage best practice for placement, ventilation and fire fighter access.

    The problem is that there’s no real guidance currently out in the wild yet, let alone set down in statutory regulations. Solar PV has only recently got some strict guidance attached to it with RC62, amongst other best practice guides for PV installations and Fire Fighting.

    EV’s catch fire a lot less than ICE but the issue is if they can’t fire, the sheer volume of water required and toxic fumes released. How that can be treated in a confined space like a basement car park, I don’t know. When you see the videos of battery fires, the pop and explode, sending hot debris everywhere which in turns leads to very quick fire spread. I actually seen one recommendation that 60 minute fire rated construction is built between all EV spots. That will be significant!

    Then we have the water run off from treating the fire, it’s highly toxic and will enter the sewer system!



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,079 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    Can foam not be used to extinguish an EV fire? So install something similar to the fire suppressant system installed in aircraft hangers over EV parking spots?

    For fires in the open is there like a massive fire blanket that can be pulled over the top of the vehicle?



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,395 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    LiFePO4 can't explode or go on fire. That's the #1 reason I'm a fan. Unfortunately so far only EVs made in China have them (including Teslas)



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,306 ✭✭✭markpb


    Everyone recommends huge amounts of water but no one recommends foam. I assume water cools the battery and stops thermal runaway as well as cutting off the supply of oxygen.

    This is a potentially interesting product and very suited to underground car parks if it works: https://insideevs.com/news/429647/giant-fire-blanket-cuts-reignition-ev-blazes/



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,316 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Possibly but no research or guidance yet. The official protocol is to continuously cover with water.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,316 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    +1

    And the new BYD Blade battery, Seemly the puncture tests shown temperatures 80% lower than traditional Lit Ion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭zg3409


    From original planning granted in 2020...

    I believe part of the hickup in original plans were that there were submissions from public in support of supermacs which turned out to be fake people. Hopefully the chargers are not fake. In Donegal town the planning stated chargers for supermacs and 2+ years after completion all that exists is one marked space and a duct. No charger ever installed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    This


    I know that LiFePo cells don't have the same performance as NCM cells in cold weather, but with better battery care is that really an issue anymore?

    Personally I'd happily trade having to wait 5 mins to get full power from the battery some days for a 0% fire risk

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I heard in the UK they're testing out a folding tank that they deploy beside a burning EV and then chuck it in and fill it with water. They then just leave it there to eventually burn out


    Presumably they'd need to cover the car in foam first, I can't imagine moving a car while it's on fire is a good idea


    Also not sure how that'll work in a confined space like a multistorey car park

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,343 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Ennis would be a great shout for a hub of some sort for the Wild Atlantic Way traffic.


    I just really really hope that's not a bank of AC chargers..... (though 16 spaces like that tells me they will be AC)



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,373 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    My guess is they'll get planning permission for lots of chargers but only install a few at first

    Not really sure why since they don't need planning for more chargers, but maybe it's to justify getting a higher power grid connection

    Or perhaps it's to make the application look good for planners, I guess we'll find out


    IIRC the Plaza group own both Tuam and Kinnegad, both of which have multiple DC chargers (Tuam having the best setup ESB ever managed to install) then I think they get the idea that DC chargers are the way to go

    My main worry would be that they just put 50kW units in, which are a bit weak for a service station

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭cannco253


    Dont forget they also have Kiltullagh - 150kW ecars and a separate 50kW.

    Kinnegad plaza is Easygo, Tuam plaza has ecars so debatable who they’ll use for Ennis.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Supermacs in kinnegad supported the dual 50kW easygo units and supermacs actually paid the fees for 6+ months of free to use until fees came in. The chargers may be owned by supermacs with easygo repairing them, although easygo have a model of revenue sharing where easygo fund charger and site owner gets no or little rent and gets a cut of charging fees.

    I would like to see a bank of 75kW easygo units with dual ccs cables so multiple cars can share power. I know 75kW is obsolete or legacy peak but easygo argue that higher power does not make financial sense and I would prefer 3 or 4 cars to charge than a high profile high power set up where when you arrive they are all in use already. I would prefer 40kW+ shared than a queue of unknown time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Easygo argue that because they dont have the capital to buy multiple 150kW units and the connections needed for them



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭cannco253


    “People who misuse disabled parking permits and illegally park in an electric charging bay are set to be fined from 2023, Ms Naughton said.”

    Sounds like some good ideas, but how will this be enforced? Only 2 traffic wardens in Galway city , you hardly ever see them around…



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