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Reflection on the pandemic: questions about the authorities' response.

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24567…50

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    #32
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119788465#Comment_119788465

    I really don't think there's that much learning that could be achieved via an "enquiry" or otherwise. The groups that need to learn will learn and it is possible that the next event of similiar magnitude may be in completely different economic, social and scientific times.



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    #33
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,036 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Going by this thread, some people didn't learn how Vaccination or natural immunity, or different strains work anyway.



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    #34
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,171 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119785611#Comment_119785611

    I seriously doubt it. We are in a new situation now mass vaccinations, new vaxes etc. Maybe masks in certain places but thats no bad thing.



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    #35
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,977 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It should be a given that a full review be carried out of all decisions made, for the simple reason that most decisions made were political rather than based on science.

    Otherw have raised some good questions so far but I'd add a few.

    Where did all the money go? That's going to lead to some very interesting reading if it's ever allowed to happen.

    Why was the previous pandemic response plan binned for a completely off the wall solution?

    What are the criteria for removing civil liberties like we seen for large portions of the lockdowns?

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #36
    thinkabouit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    As a citizen of this country I would like every single person involved in the decision making of what happened to be held fully account for there actions.

    The whole thing stank after May 2020 and we went until march 2022 with restrictions that were never justifiable.

    Our constitutional rights was fucked out the window and I want accountability.



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    #37
    DLink
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119788498#Comment_119788498

    Are you being funny?

    The only reason it can't / won't happen right now is because we simply can't afford it at the minute, but what happens if there's another pandemic when we have money again?

    Everything would be repeated again because the government needs to be seen not to be killing grannies.

    Every decision needs to be picked apart, and people need to account for their decisions, the decisions that caused millions of us to be locked down and have our freedoms restricted for no good reason.

    King Tony needs to be hauled over the coals, repeatedly I might add. A neck like a jockey's bollix on him given all the misery he caused.



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    #38
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119787726#Comment_119787726

    The antivaxxer line is such a weak and lazy response. The poster made some excellent points and has considered the subject. There is no need to be so black and white. Tear the post apart by all means...but people let themselves down time and again with the blinkered antivax response.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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    #39
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119789216#Comment_119789216

    If we have another pandemic the circumstances will be different.

    Dragging someone over the coals doesn't change anything.



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    #40
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,036 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Fyi

    https://jrnl.ie/5901644




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    #41
    lumphammer2
    Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    March 16th 2020 saw me just complete Margaret Atwood's dystopian novel The Testaments .... 11 days later I saw that world become real on 27th March 2020 at around 8PM ... 2KM rules and all that ... there clearly was no need for that level of oppression and for it to go on from then to 29th June and then be repeated lasting most of October 2020 to May 2021 was bizarre and scary ...

    That policy was copied from China ... a Chinese law to lock down the country in event of a revolution ... China in turn copied it from 1980s Poland when such laws were used to quell anti regime sentiment ...

    Such policy has its roots in dealing with political opposition in totalitarian states ... and have not been used to deal with other modern pandemics ... they clearly should not have been used for Covid 19 ...

    I have no problem with masks, vaccines, social distancing that makes sense, etc ... but a lot of these alternatives and the approach taken by Czech Republic, Iceland and South Korea were initially ruled out by Leo Varadkar when put to him ... now the very things initially ruled out are the norm ... things I was saying from the start as alternatives to stupid long lockdowns ... I hope we have learned our lesson and will not copy authoritarianism again ...

    China btw despite vaccines and knowing more about Covid 19 continue with long lockdowns ... it is clearly about control not Covid ... Xi gave himself a third term ...



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    #42
    DLink
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119789368#Comment_119789368

    It wouldn't change anything in the past, but it'll certainly make them think twice before fücking us over again in the future if there's a risk of losing their pension or possibly even going to jail.

    What you are suggesting, by having no review or accountability, is authoritarian in nature... we knew what was best for you in the past, and we know what's best for you in the future. How dare you question our decisions and how dare you ask how we spent YOUR tax money.

    These idiots need to be made to sweat and think before they jump, sorry, sweat and think before they make us jump next time around.



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    #43
    ZX7R
    Registered Users Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119789270#Comment_119789270

    Did anyone bother to read the second line of there post

    The poster says

    Clearly I don't think this, but there are a great many who do.



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    #44
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    It’s a pretty simple answer to the question of whether the government will answer any questions about their response. No. Why? Because as we all know, in Ireland there is absolutely no accountability for anything and never will be. Our “leaders” think we are fcuking idiots who will do anything we’re told and of course Covid proved that they are right.



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    #45
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    The government not given a straight answer whether colleges be open or not after the summer holidays of 2020.



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    #46
    DLink
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119789977#Comment_119789977

    After everything that happened, you still have people happy for this to happen again without question...

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119789368#Comment_119789368

    The circumstances of a future pandemic MAY be different, I will admit that, but throwing previously agreed upon pandemic plans out of the window and going straight to lockdown is not the answer.

    The people in charge need to know there are consequences before they screw us over with their decisions, but you are right, the Irish people will do what they are told, and shame anyone who goes against, or even just questions, the rules.

    The Japanese have a good phrase for this.... "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down". There's no beating like a good browbeating.



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    #47
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119789998#Comment_119789998


    I personally, just want to move the fcek on to be honest. It was a tough 2 years for everyone. I don't see any benefit in a review and if you look at the decision making process in how the pandemic was handled you'd see that not one single person was responsible for the approval of a decision - thats the defence that always gets used when reviews are undertaken.

    A minority of people are bothered.



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    #48
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,301 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Moving on is all well and good, but our Government is currently preparing plans for energy shortages, that involve restrictions on citizens.

    We also have, what we are being told is a climate emergency.

    We have seen how easy it is for Governments/Bureaucrats to condition the public, too many of us are prepared to hand over our civil liberties and not have the acumen to ask why.



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    #49
    DLink
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790436#Comment_119790436

    In fairness, I can see your point, and I also want to move on, but if you let these lads get away with what they did scot-free and without consequences, they'll just rinse and repeat.

    And if it was decision by committee, then hang the entire committee out to dry... they'll think twice about doing it again.

    At the very least they should have a "Designated Dessie" in future, someone who is the responsible adult on the team and let them make the final go/no-go decision, everyone hid behind the committees last time and passed the buck around, it's just not acceptable to be locking up healthy people and killing the economy, borrowing even more money to pay for the auld Netflix subscriptions.

    Whatever way they do it, people sitting on gilded pensions at the top of the food chain making decisions that affect the people at the bottom of the food chain MUST be forced consider the problems they create downstream with their decision... the people at the bottom are the people who PAY for their gilded pensions after all.



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    #50
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Part of the problem was large portions of the state simply shutting down rather than making any sort of effort to at least keep things ticking over. For all its faults at least the UK response paid attention to the idea that people and businesses need to get on with things.



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    #51
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790723#Comment_119790723

    I dont think there's much point wasting everyones time with a review when there are a minority out there that know the outcome already? ("if you let these lads get away with what they did scot-free and without consequences, they'll just rinse and repeat")

    Again, if you are expecting people to be fired/punished IF there is an outcome to that effect, you would be sadly misguided.



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    #52
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,036 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It's not like those looking for punishments would trust the replacements anyway.



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    #53
    DLink
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    I don't expect anyone to get fired, sadly, but if it puts the wind up someone and makes then think twice, then well and good.

    They've had tribunals for less, why are you so against investigating the decisions behind two years of torture, coercion, browbeating & pointless restrictions?

    Like I said, if it makes them think twice about doing what they did in the past, then spend my fücking tax money. I'd nearly pay more tax just to see that lockdown merchant King Tony squirming.



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    #54
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,141 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Hindsight is 20:20.

    For every question asked of the government, people should consider the information that was available and the public mood.

    Most of the public was hugely in favor of lockdowns if they kept numbers down, which they did. Relaxing lockdown = more positive COVID cases. Remember that lockdowns were a response to an overwhelmed health service, not to keep deaths down. Also remember that every country was finding their feet in a new crisis, with no solid information on the virus in the first 3 months.

    It's not fair to say "well country X had this policy and it worked, so why didn't we?" when the information on the policy's success was unavailable at the time.

    Mike Ryan said that incorrect action is better than inaction. At least you can learn from incorrect action.



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    #55
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791535#Comment_119791535

    Well this is essentially the crux of it. A review has to take a hell of a lot of variables from the times of those decisions into account and when you have a minority who don't seem to agree with the path taken, the to the point that the outcome of a review (in their head is already known) you reall have to question the rationale of having a review in the first instance.

    Some posters calling individuals nicknames and their attitudes towards individuals says it all really.



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    #56
    DLink
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791535#Comment_119791535

    We could see, while still in the pandemic, that they were pulling restrictions out of their asses, the dead weren't piling up in the streets, knee jerk restrictions to protect the always in trouble health service, pandering to the Vulnerables and not to be seen as granny killers, there's no need for 20:20 hindsight as we could see what was going on in real time.

    And what was the health service doing during the pandemic?

    Picking their holes, dancing around in empty hospitals to cheer us up FFS, same as the other idiots dancing around on the empty beaches while on "covid patrols".

    Mike Ryan said that incorrect action is better than inaction. At least you can learn from incorrect action

    Your shining star from the WHO said that we can learn from "incorrect action", yet how do you expect us to learn from that "incorrect action" if you're saying "be grand lads, no need to have a tribunal"?

    Smacks of double standards to me if you're quoting him then saying hindsight doesn't apply.... there needs to be accountability for what they did, and lessons need to be learned, no ifs, buts or maybes.



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    #57
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791736#Comment_119791736

    You've already decided the outcome of any tribunal.



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    #58
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,141 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791736#Comment_119791736

    "Pulling restrictions out of their asses"

    There was no data to work from. We entered a 2 week lockdown. "Two weeks to flatten the curve" Sure it was guesswork, but the alternative was to do nothing.

    Restrictions were designed to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. Just because we didn't have corpse carts doesn't mean they weren't worthwhile.

    I think you'll find the ICU figures were near maxxed out for most of the first few waves. Didn't we get daily reports on it?


    That quote from Mike Ryan was from the START of the pandemic, based on his ebola experience. He didn't have hindsight when he said it.


    I agree that accountability and lessons need to be learned, but it seems you've already got your pitchfork and torch at the ready.



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    #59
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 12,036 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791843#Comment_119791843


    When has anyone been happy with a tribunal.

    People who see conspiracy in everything, and distrust authority and experts and data, will be even happy with it. Since tribunal's are full of such things.



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    #60
    DLink
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791843#Comment_119791843
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791902#Comment_119791902

    You are both are both correct, the pitchfork is out and sharpened, the laser sight has been fitted and zeroed... I have decided what I would do with all of them, from Lockdown Tony through to a local level.

    However, I'm just a single username floating around on the internet, and what I hoped would happen to them still hasn't happened.

    There's a big distinction between me and a tribunal though, and one would expect there are more rational minds that would run the tribunals or investigations.

    I don't expect we'll see eye to eye on this, as far as I'm concerned a few people need to lose their pension at the very least, or even better, go to prison.

    I'd give them a free pass for the first 3 or 4 months of the pandemic, it was all a big novelty after all, but after that they were just playing with our lives & freedoms.

    Have a tribunal or investigation, and see what comes of it.

    The cost of such a venture is only going to be a drop in the ocean compared to the money they wasted on the covid response, maybe they can make their money back by docking a few gilded pensions.

    Here are some questions that should be asked...

    • Why was the established pandemic plan thrown out the window on Day 1 and the Chinese lockdown model implemented?
    • If the ICU's were full how did nurses have the time to put together dance videos?
    • How many people died from missed cancer / health screening?
    • Where did the HSE spend all that money?

    These people do need to be reminded that there are consequences to their decisions, and they need to be reminded they can't just hide behind decision by committee.

    I don't care about hindsight... think twice, act once.



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    #61
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,583 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119792252#Comment_119792252

    A single username on the internet simply doesn't have the political clout for a tribunal to happen. Lots of people need to make it an election or political issue and from what I can see there aren't that many people who care enough for that to happen.



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