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Guilty of manslaughter of Waterford fisherman

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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,415 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Not sure where the attitude. I stixk to what I know, you are happy to speculate. You do you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,283 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Kerrie is a scumbag as are the entire family by all accounts. They tried to cover up what really happened that night too. Kitchen knife in his bedroom? Nah. That was produced at some stage to cause damage. He was tried twice for murdered and has literally gotten away with it. He'll be out soon destroying Dunmore again.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    And I stick to what I know, which includes what verdicts say about the interpretation of the jury.

    And don’t talk to me about having an attitude. You asked a question and have completely dismissed my answer.

    Not guilty for murder but guilty of manslaughter is, as far as I’m concerned a slam dunk. Every case like this the jury has three options.

    1. guilty of murder
    2. guilty of manslaughter, and to come to this the jury must be of the opinion the accused was acting in self-defence but used excessive force. The judge would have said this to them in their charge.
    3. Not guilty, must be of the opinion the accused acted in self-defence and didn’t use excessive force.

    If you want to discuss the facts, then this is what would have been put to the jury. What problem do you have with this?



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That family was forced out of dunmore shortly after the killing



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,243 ✭✭✭Esse85


    This scumbag will be back on the streets by the time he's 25, that is shocking.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,415 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I posted the jury instructions earlier. The ones actually given by the judge. What you posted does not match them. What was that about facts?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    The knife in the bedroom definitely played a big part and that's the information we're missing. No one just keeps a kitchen knife in their bedroom. Ornamental ones, yes, kitchen? Only kitchen knives I ever had in my bedroom were 2 butter knives for doing hotknives! So I reckon the process of the knife being used is more than what we know and that led to the decision of manslaughter.

    Unfortunately, court records are not liable to the FOI act and unless you're involved in the case you're unlikely to get a transcript.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Where the kitchen knife was or wasn't is moot. It's his home, he is entitled to have kitchen knives in every single room in the house if he wants. He isn't entitled to walk around in public with one concealed though.

    In the Martin Keenan case he stabbed the man to death multiple times with half a garden shears. Hardly a household item.

    Also in that case it is worth pointing out that Keenan was not physically assaulted, but the act of Burglary had previous been ruled as an act of violence in itself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,375 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Reading more on this in the actual media, Power was 6 foot 4.5 and of muscular athletic build that's according to the state pathologist. He had cocaine and alcohol in his system and was three times over the drink driving limit. He drove, drunk, from the pub where he had been drinking to threaten Kerrie, a skinny teenager probably not much more than half his weight.

    If a drunk and drugged huge fcuker entered my house at 3 am to threaten me, I'd stab him too.

    The backstory of Kerrie allegedly doing this and that and knocking a mirror off a car, I don't see the relevance here. Even if Kerrie is a scumbag, he has the same right to defend himself in his home as anyone else does. The key thing here is the exact circumstances of how the knife was used e.g. was Power advancing or trying to flee. The state pathologist suggested that it could have been the former and that it may have made the knife wound worse. But we'll never know for sure given the bias/drunkenness of the witnesses and the fact that one key witness is not around to give his side.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


     But we'll never know for sure given the bias/drunkenness of the witnesses

    The lad who didn't help his friend who was dying in the street but went to the fathers house to get golf clubs to smash up the rest of the windows in Dean Kerries house?

    Now granted he had been drinking all day and he is obviously a pissed / drugged up scumbag. But it was slightly rich of the prosecution to bemoan Kerries mother for not helping the deceased, she should have ran to the rescue as her own house was still being under the attack by the states key witness. 😏



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  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭NiceFella


    More spoofing. The knife in his bedroom a moot point? Why was there a court inquest into it then?

    A person's entitlement to have a kitchen knife in any part of there house wasn't the question. The question was, what were his intentions with the knife (murder weapon) in his bedroom? Was he peeling spuds for the dinner? He had no answer to this question. None.

    Which implies he may have expected to draw some aggressive attention from the deceised. i.e meaning he was involved in some aggravating factor to the whole situation. So no, it wasn't a moot point by a long shot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Completely moot.

    As the Judge said in sentencing the knife wasn't concealed and it wasn't like this altercation took place on the street, although as we have seen from a previous case this wouldn't rule out a lawful killing in a self defence case.

    But could you answer question, in the Keenan case he defended himself with half a garden shears, was that for peeling spuds?

    Again completely moot, whether he stabbed him with a kitchen knife, half a gardening tool or beat him death with a golf club.

    Also Spoofing would be basing your opinion on this case and law in general from information on Facebook. 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭NiceFella


    You think how the murder weapon was got in his bedroom was moot? Mother of god. If it was moot, then why was it questioned then??

    Even the Judge didn't believe he was telling the truth about how he come to have the knife so quick at hand. So Obviously it wasn't a moot point, because it was questioned!! Has the penny dropped for you yet?

    Yeah you're right, they're just 100s of Russian bot accs concocting lies about a saintly young man. Keep your tin foil hat firmly fixed boggles.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Because the DPP twice went for a charge of murder. Which given the facts of the case was over reach.

    He said Kerrie's case was different to one where a person carries a concealed knife in public and the defendant’s case therefore attracts a lesser sentence. Kerrie did not instigate the attack and could not have expected it. He was at home when, "without warning" he was attacked by Mr Power who had thrown a large rock through a front window of the house and unlawfully entered

    Again, not my opinion. 🤷‍♂️

    But again, as referenced by the other case carrying a concealed knife in public doesn't mean an acquittal can't be achieved under self defence laws.

    Now I notice you never actually answer a question.

    So if you could give this one a go, in your own time please.

    But could you answer question, in the Keenan case he defended himself with half a garden shears, was that for peeling spuds?



  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭NiceFella


    So it wasn't a moot point, it actually informed the case is what you are saying. As already said the Judge did not believe the Jury got the full truth given Kerrie's non account about why he was able to have a knife so quick. This makes his intent with the knife questionable because he had no answer to this question.

    I don't know anything about the Keenan case unfortunately, so cannot really comment on it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    He wasn't convicted of murder, so there was no murder weapon. 😕

    Again

    He said Kerrie's case was different to one where a person carries a concealed knife in public and the defendant’s case therefore attracts a lesser sentence. Kerrie did not instigate the attack and could not have expected it. He was at home when, "without warning" he was attacked by Mr Power who had thrown a large rock through a front window of the house and unlawfully entered

    The attack, according to the judge was not expected.

    It doesn't matter if he had a kitchen knife, a Japanese saw, a chainsaw, box cutter, a set of golf clubs or half a garden shears.

    None of those things are unlawful to have in a home, it is not a crime to store a kitchen knife in any other room in ones house.

    I don't know anything about the Keenan case unfortunately, so cannot really comment on it.

    The prosecution in that case argued that no lawful person would have half a garden shears in their home.

    Guess what, it was moot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭NiceFella


    I read the Keenan case you are referring to. It's simply not the same question being asked in this situation.

    In the Keenan case the question being asked by prosecutor was if a lawful person would have a half shears in their house. They believed they would not.

    In this case the question being asked wasn't if a lawful person would have a kitchen knife in their house, but rather what purpose was the kitchen knife for in the bedroom at all hours of the morning? Two completely different questions. They are not equivalent.

    Kerrie could not give an answer, which is suspect in my opinion.

    And this is were I potentially disagree with the Judge (I say potentially because I don't know all the facts as other do not here). Knowing what we know we cannot say for certain that the attack was unexpected. And given he had no answer for the strange placement of the knife, I believe that is a little suspect.

    Post edited by NiceFella on


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You are completely missing the point, he does not have to answer for the knife, because as evidenced by the Keenans case its moot. It was a poor attempt to pin a murder conviction on him (twice) which was never credible to begin with.

    Knowing what we know we cannot say for certain that the attack was unexpected. And given he had no answer for the strange placement of the knife, I believe that is a little suspect.

    No one has claimed that, not the Prosecution or the Judge.

    That is just a figment of your imagination, which TBH I have zero interest in debating.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,141 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Boggles and NiceFella - put each other on ignore as any more of this bickering will result in threadbans



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    You may be legally allowed to keep kitchen knives wherever you want, but to call it moot in a case with a person dead from said knife is not quite right. The fact he couldn't answer why it was there gives it reason to be questioned. For a long while, I had a set of Tanto, Wakizashi and Katana on display in my sittingroom. I can say there are there for ornamental purposes. He couldn't reply why there was a kitchen knife in his bedroom, regardless of being allowed to have one there or not. It's entitled and must be questioned when that was the weapon used.

    If he had replied "I saw him coming and put it in my room just in case" it would have had a massive impact. If he has said "I was using it to cut chord" or something, there wouldn't be much more questions. But it definitely deserves to be considered when there was no reason given. It forms part of the investigation/file, regardless of the legality of it being in the room.

    I still think it's a bit severe, but we just can't say for certain without the evidence of which we are not privvy. I just find it strange that he would get such a large conviction for what is being described as self defence if there weren't other things at play. We may never know, unless there's a contest to the severity of the conviction and a higher court case. Which I also imagine will happen.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Where the knife was had absolutely no bearing on the case.

    The fact he used a weapon did. Which I think is bonkers when you consider.

    Mr Nally beat Mr Ward 20 times with a stick and shot him twice with a single barrel shotgun

    Not guilty.

    🤷‍♂️

    I don't see what grounds there could be for an appeal, inadequate defence? That would be stretch.



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