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Was the government right to put no limit on the amount of Ukrainian refugees in Ireland? Read OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,318 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,329 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    It’s the only other logical get out for the government.

    they won’t be just added to council lists, the likelihood is they’d have to be added and fast tracked to the very top of it….

    Then again…. where does the government find the stock from… ? there is a significant volume of empty private housing stock in private ownership but not public.

    not like the government can bully homeowners to make them available…wait…. Unless there is some emergency legislation brought in ? 😏

    Ahhh the VHT ( vacant homes tax ) that is being introduced…. So they may have a list of all vacant homes !

    still convinced we exist in a democracy ?

    nice white space in the middle of our tricolour for I dunno, say ‘some other symbol’ ? reflecting the change in status of this republic ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭kravmaga


    I do intend to move to Central Europe when I hit 60, im not staying in this banana republic when I retire, no way jose. :-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    From the IT:

    However, 61 per cent say they are concerned that there are “too many refugees coming here”, with 34 per cent disagreeing. And more than half of voters (56 per cent) disagree that Ireland should continue to accept refugees from Ukraine “no matter how many arrive”, while 36 per cent agreed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    And you expect their NIMBYs to welcome you? HA



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,008 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    And more than half of voters (56 per cent) disagree that Ireland should continue to accept refugees from Ukraine “no matter how many arrive”, while 36 per cent agreed.

    Did the 36% not understand the question or what?

    I mean it's a pretty daft question anyway. But still.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Read the four questions in order. I think attitudes will shift if there are blackouts. It’s easy to say you support it now, but is your heating electric only? Blackouts are a far bigger for those that are. Apartments are usually electric only.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Those blackouts are likely to happen with or without refugees in Ireland, owing to the fallout of the energy crisis from the war.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,008 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Why would reading the four questions in order make a difference to what I said?

    The price of Gas has plummeted. The chances of blackouts have drastically reduced.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    More people means more energy usage, have the government or suppliers sourced enough energy and confirmed it?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,008 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    We get about 10 million visitors here a year, should we shut the ports just in case?



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Perhaps couples should file an application with the ESB to get approved for more energy rations to have a baby



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭enricoh


    The government is cutting out providing meals in hotels and anyone refusing to leave their hotel will be cut adrift. Better late than never, should help take some of the gloss off Ireland as a destination. Might help salvage tourism next year.

    Whoever came up with full dole n all meals provided should be named, shamed n thrown under the bus, but never gonna happen.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/cabinet-meeting-ukraine-refugees-5905638-Oct2022/



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,008 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Begs the question where are to supposed to prepare their meals?

    Will the hotel let them cook, I doubt it.

    While one source said “we will not see people go hungry”


    🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    They can pay for meals with their full dole entitlements

    Over the weekend, the Taoiseach said there is a need to free up capacity that is already in the system, stating that there is an issue with refugees that are currently staying in hotel accomodation not wanting to move on.


    Martin told reporters “there was a reluctance, for example, for quite a number of whom are in hotels to move out into housing”.

    “There’s been a constant challenge there, because, understandably, if people are in a hotel with a group, they find some comfort in that, and are more reluctant to move into a single house. And that’s been a feature. So these are issues that we have to deal with now, in terms of trying to create greater capacity within the accommodation that we’ve already secured,” said the Taoiseach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    they won’t be just added to council lists, the likelihood is they’d have to be added and fast tracked to the very top of it….

    Why is that likely? Is this based on anything, or is it just speculation?

    The Vacant Homes Tax is a means of addressing the housing and homelessness crises and it's just one of several measures, many of which are pro-landlord: https://home.kpmg/ie/en/home/insights/2022/09/budget-2023-taxing-times-property-construction.html If it brings some of the 160,000 vacant properties in the state back into use for refugees, asylum seekers, homeless and people wanting to rent or buy - isn't that a good thing? Better than leaving a place go to rack and ruin?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,574 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Its the shortage of gas that may cause the blackouts. Winter is not here yet. It will probably be January before we know if we have a problem. Also, has this plummeting gas price caused a plummeting electricity price? Or even gas bills to crash?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,008 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Gas prices like most commodities is based on supply and demand, and this moment in time we have glut of it which has forced the price to plummet, it actually entered negative the past week or so.

    This is been driven primarily by new supply lines, near full storage and unseasonably warm weather. It was 21 degrees in London today, 22 in Munich.

    The wholesale price takes time to filter to peoples bills, the regulator for once should do their job and make should this is done as fast as possible.

    Late Feb, March has actually been the bogey months of late for colder weather.

    Germanys new LNG terminals should be fully operational by then.

    The EU have reacted to Putins energy warfare and have played an absolute blinder.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,008 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Martin told reporters “there was a reluctance, for example, for quite a number of whom are in hotels to move out into housing”.

    Sorry but where are all these houses Ukrainians are reluctant to move into?

    They can pay for meals with their full dole entitlements

    If the hotels do in fact provide meals.

    Can imagine ones "dole" going very far if you had to "eat out" constantly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭enricoh


    The housing minister said 35000 houses will be needed built for Ukrainians at the start of the war. That figure was for Ukrainians only , not including asylum seekers. Haven't heard any figures since. 35k houses at 300k a pop is a mere 10.5 billion.

    The mica houses in the west was costing 2.5 billion to sort iirc, but there's no dough to fix them apparently. Irish people that paid for their own houses can get to the back of the queue.

    https://www.independent.ie/news/additional-35000-homes-needed-over-coming-years-for-ukrainian-refugees-41505736.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,273 ✭✭✭emo72


    Need to build 70,000 houses in a year to stand still.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,008 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Article is from March when we were planning for 200,000 fleeing from Ukraine.

    It also states up to and at a total cost of 2.5 billion. So, no obviously not building 35,000 new homes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,329 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    It’s likely because hotels are and will be seeking to kick them out.

    Address the housing and homeless crisis by NOT inviting tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people looking for housing and taking up a lot of other financial and social resources that all boils down to money, tax revenue that can’t be returned to help our taxpayers.

    its not a good thing, because what next, a tax on unused motor vehicles… ohh and it’s not a tax, might be in name, but in practice it’s a fine, a penalty.

    you don’t want the place to go to rack and ruin you start by control your borders…and putting limits on the amount of help and how many people receive it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,574 ✭✭✭jackboy


    I expect the government will slowly row back on benefits for the Ukrainians to discourage more coming and to encourage the ones here to leave.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,008 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    That would require a change in the law. They are entitled to the exact same social welfare as an Irish citizen, I imagine if feasible there will be means tests, it has been stated these will soon happen in regards medical cards.

    The directive states we need to provide them with "access to suitable accommodation". No where does it say AFAIK give them free accommodation.

    The problem is if you cut meals from hotels which are not suitable to begin with, they become wholly unsuitable and you are possibly in breach of the directive. Which O'Gorman has eluded to.

    The Cabinet for some unknown reason came out of their meeting this evening pretending we had a shítload of housing that Ukrainians could move into and if they don't they are on their own as we have fulfilled our obligations, they can't even manage the pledged accommodation, which actually would alleviate some pressure.

    It's fantasy stuff which has been purposely done I imagine on the Friday of a bank holiday weekend.

    Such is the bureaucratic disarray in allocating refugees to pledged homes, weeks after Tetiana and Vova had settled into Mary and Paddy's home they got a call from Kildare County Council seeking to assess their home to take refugees. They were unaware that Mary was already hosting



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just caught a bit of TV3 news. They were interviewing a mother and son from the Crown Plaza Hotel. If I heard her correctly, she said that she was from Western Georgia.

    Are they getting the same deal as Ukrainians?

    Im all for helping the Ukrainians because I’m terrified of what Putin is capable of. But asylum seekers are a different kettle of fish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    Rte news reports:

    "Ministers were also expected to agree to a proposal that would see future hotel contract for refugees to exclude the provision of free

    The step was being taken as there is concern that some refugees have turned down the provision of alternative accommodation as they would have to pay for food if they moved out of hotels"


    If someone had such a thing a few short months ago they would be labelled a racist, far right etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,574 ✭✭✭jackboy


    It would be pretty easy to stay within the law and cause pain for the Ukrainians. Our governments are adept at this and have plenty experience on the Irish population. If the government turn on the Ukrainians I could see their numbers dropping pretty quick.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,099 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    There was the group in Killarney who were unwilling to move to Westport. And the local charitable spokespeople and business people rowed in behind them. Now Westport is a fine spot but if I had a nice place to stay in Killarney.. no way would I want to be moving. Great spot with an abundance of beauty all about. I'd happily go on family holidays there but it's a bit expensive for ordinary Irish citizens.......



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