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Price of electric kettle Vs hob - Straight answer possible?

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  • 29-10-2022 10:34pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭


    Based on current prices gas and electricity prices does it cost more to boil water in an electric kettle, or a kettle on the hob? We live in the countryside so buy gas in a drum, and don't get it the same way they get it in urban areas. I know it will depend on the efficiency of the kettle, but lets assume average efficiency. And lets assume an average power rating.

    If you know the answer, would you be willing to explain to me (as if I were a 12 year) how you knew, and could you show me what has to be done in order to calculate it? I'd like to understand why it's so difficult to get a straight answer. The first google search brings up this article; which I can't help but feel is not very reliable

    This article implies that you need to be an engineer in order know what costs you more! Apparently it cost €4.57 to boil 2 litres of waters!?

    Thank you



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,363 ✭✭✭blackbox


    The reason it's difficult is because it is hard to measure the small quantity of gas involved.

    Bottled gas is much more expensive than mains gas.

    The energy that is "wasted" from your gas hob actually goes to heat your house, so apart from in Summer, it is not really wasted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,957 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    His costs are off the wall.

    Its clearly explained in this

    Is it cheaper to boil water for tea with a gas hob or an electric kettle? | NimbleFins


    if that's not clear enough then I don't know what is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    The first step is to establish how much energy (in kWh) is required to boil the required amount of water. There are formulas to do it based on the specific heat capacity of water - it works out at about 0.091kWh per litre (assuming the initial water temp is 20degC)

    It is relatively easy to work out the kettle cost based on the unit rate you are paying. If a unit is costing €0.35, the kettle will use about 3.2c worth of electricity per litre boiled. That assumes a kettle which is 100% efficient. While electric kettles would be pretty efficient, I would say a 90% efficiency figure would be more like it - so let’s say the kettle is costing approx 3.5c per litre of water to go from 20degC to boiling.

    To look at gas,

    You still need 0.091kWh of energy per litre of water you wish to boil. LPG bottled gas delivers about 7.1kWh per litre. The price of a litre of LPG varies greatly, but let’s say it’s €1.00 per litre on average at present. So each kWh costs €0.141 (vs €0.35 per unit of electricity in the example above). So gas appears, and probably is significantly cheaper. The big variable with gas is the efficiency - I.e. how much energy will be ‘lost’ when you are boiling the kettle or pot on a gas hob? I’m not going to try and put a figure on it, but the efficiency of that arrangement would be significantly less than an electric kettle, so gas would not be as cheap as it first appears. Another poster rightly stated that much of this heat loss will be ‘lost’ into the house, which still provides a benefit at least in winter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,146 ✭✭✭smuggler.ie


    MHO...

    By FloGas uk


    €??? (price for 34kg propane bottle) / 476.646** = € for kWh

    don't know real prices but lets say its €105 , from here...

    105/476.646=0.22 €/kWh - and this is final price

    compare to your electrical unit you pay plus standing charge, etc

    Now, wasted energy due to user habits/error (full kettle boil for one cup, etc) is not possible to calculate.

    Where claim that is not wasted and serve as heating is true, however, its not the purpose heating home while preparing tea and i dont know how to determine % of that "secondary" use.

    Could be wrong, but guts tell me that electrical is more direct heating source than hob, hence "secondary" is less.


    ** might depend on gas quality that is not possible to determine for us mortals ☺️



  • Posts: 266 [Deleted User]


    It’s very hard to calculate unless you could measure the gas flow.

    If someone has a natural gas cooker, and a digital meter, it might be possible to boil a similar kettle and get a volume of gas used. That might roughly correspond to LPG.

    You’d have to switch off all other gas appliances, read the meter. Boil maybe 3 kettles and then read the meter again and divide by 3. I’d doubt one kettle would even use 1/10 of a M3.

    The problem is the heat transfer on a gas cooker isn’t 100% efficient. A lot of gas is burnt that’s just going up and around the outside of the kettle and more energy again is just heating the air, radiating into the surfaces near by and so on.

    With an electric kettle, most of the heat is going into the water. If it’s an insulated one, all of it is and an electric element converts 100% if it’s input into heat. There’s no losses, but the price per kWh is significantly higher than gas.

    So, it’s hard to calculate unless you know how much of gas is being burned.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Brid Hegarty


    Well that article doesn't mention whether it's mains gas or or bottled gas. That article does not state that the costs of one are "off the wall" in comparison to the other. I don't mean to irritate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Brid Hegarty


    What's an M3? Didn't I say to explain like as if I was a 12 year old.

    Also, are most electric kettles not insulated?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Brid Hegarty


    Where does the 476.64 figure come from? and what is it representing? A twelve year old would not follow that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭walterking


    Where you can make a simple saving is to put water into a covered jug and let it come up to room temperature.


    Assuming the room is 18 degrees, this will save about 15% on heating water directly from the tap which is about 12 degrees at present.

    The savings increase as winter comes in as tap water temperature will fall to about 7 degrees.


    It's all about thermodynamics - I know nothing about it, but I'm sure someone else does.

    But the best way of saving is to boil just what you need.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Brid Hegarty


    But are you saying I can rest assured that gas is more expensive than electric? And at that, were you thinking of mains gas or bottled during your post?

    You used "7.1kWh per litre" and some other figure to get the "€0.141 figure". How did you do that?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭Lenar3556



    If the gas was costing €1.00 per litre when bought in cylinders, and a litre gives you 7.1kWh of energy - €1 divided by 7.1 = €0.141 per kWh

    I thought it would be useful to be able to compare what 1Kwh of energy cost in gas vs electricity - although note the caveats that extracting that 1kWh of energy from gas can be significantly less efficient (more wasteful) than using an electric element which is generally a very efficient process (little or no waste).

    But also that €1.00 per litre would be quite high. Supplies to a bulk tank at a private house would be more like €0.70 per litre at present. Supplies to heavy commercial users much lower again.

    In summary, the boiling of a kettle in a domestic enviroment generally costs very little and an electric kettle is likely the most practical way to do it. Heating a house, would be a very different application and you will typically find electricity a much more expensive option over gas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Brid Hegarty


    @Lenar3556 In summary, the boiling of a kettle in a domestic enviroment generally costs very little and an electric kettle is likely the most practical way to do it. 

    But which costs more?



  • Posts: 266 [Deleted User]


    Cubic meters, the units that most modern gas meters in this part of the world count in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,146 ✭✭✭smuggler.ie


    Its all in the screenshot...., but here you go...

    Standard propane bottle is 34Kg , i only guess this is what you use. If different, just recalculate.

    According FloGas UK, 1 kg propane can produce 14.019 kWh of energy, so 34x14.019=476.646 kWh

    There is still a lot of variables/unknown involved, but at least you have same measurement unit (kWh) to compare.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    As has been explained there are many variables when it comes to boiling water on a gas hob that are hard to account for. Notwithstanding that, in my estimation if you carefully boil a kettle on a gas hob it will still be cheaper than using the electric kettle.

    If a pretty typical 1.7 litre electric kettle cost €0.06 to boil using electricity, the gas equivalent might be €0.05 - not exactly big money either way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Brid Hegarty


    Is what is said by the poster above true, about bottled gas being more expensive that mains gas? And when you say "supplies to a bulk tank to a private house" do you mean a drum of gas?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    Yes, ‘Mains gas’ is presumably natural gas and enters a home via a pipeline at street level. It is only available in major cities in Ireland which have the infrastructure.

    Natural gas has historically been significantly cheaper than Liquid Petroleum Gas (LPG) which is what you would purchase in a cylinder(drum) of various sizes, or have a bulk storage tank (about the size of an oil tank) at your home which is filled periodically by Calor or Flogas.

    The price of LPG can vary greatly depending on how you buy it, a bulk tank is usually the most economical if you are a moderate to heavy user. (Central heating)



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