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The manslaughter of a violent but unarmed intruder.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,537 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    The accused decided not to take the stand. i cant help but think this didn't help his case.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,256 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    'if you have the opportunity to flee' is not quite the same as 'expecting' them to flee.



  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Sigyn


    I've got a kitchen knife in my bedroom right now. I peeled an apple with it 2 days ago and was too lazy to take it back into the kitchen.

    Homo homini lupus est.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,256 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    if you need to protect a family member, you clearly don't have the opportunity to flee. i am talking about if you do have the opportunity to flee.

    if you stay to 'protect your property' while you genuinely believe your life is under threat, you're quite clearly not that afraid for your life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    My guess is that the kitchen knife was suspected of being in the kitchen. Issue there might be if the defendant leaves the scene, goes to the kitchen, returns with a knife then that suggests it isn't immediate self defense and there is premeditation. Why didn't he leave the house altogether or get a baseball bat or less lethal weapon etc. whack him over the head with a frying pan for example.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,841 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Jury’s can hear everything but come to the wrong conclusion.

    id like to believe that there would be scope in the law that if a person forces entry into a private residential dwelling, that the person resident there may use a preemptive and appropriate level of force to neutralise / negate the threat.. once somebody forces their way into your home, a threat exists…. Regardless of them being downstairs, upstairs, kitchen, bedroom or the bathroom…

    They are NOT there to empty the dishwasher.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,537 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    They can use an appropriate level of force. In this case the jury decided that sticking a kitchen knife in someone's chest was not appropriate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,841 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    So be it, but if I knew a violent intruder had forced their way in here I’d probably not be of the inclination to hope a few slaps might provide suitable or ‘appropriate’ deterrent….



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    I'm on the fence about this case, on one hand he defended his mother and home and only stabbed the intruder once in doing so making it very hard to say he intentionally wanted to murder him, on the other hand he seems and acts like an absolute scumbag and the smirking at the cameras didn't do him any favours



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  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    But once, not multiple times, a belt of a frying pan could just as easily have killed him, can you define an appropriate level of force when faced with a stronger bigger intruder who violently broke into your house, I understand what you're saying but "sticking a knife in someone's chest" might have saved his own life in his own home, if he'd missed and stuck him in the arm who's to say how it might have turned out, he could have been the one killed if he had been overpowered and knife taken off him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    Someone comes into your house and violently attacks your mother and you and he is bigger and stronger than either of you. Anything could have happened there, the mother. Pull have been killed by a punch the son could have been killed by a punch. I don’t see how see how anything could be excessive unless the guy was retreating and trying to get out of the house. This violent intruder was a threat to both the mother and son. Why should they have to accept that threat in their own home. The laws need to be changed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    The law did change and all the post 2011 cases showing it being applied as intended, as opposed to this outlier. The Judges instructions to the Jury are what's at fault. Manslaughter if using excessive force but thought such force reasonable has no basis in the 2011 act, the only thing that matters now is if the person defending themselves honestly believed such force was appropriate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 490 ✭✭getoutadodge


    Jeezus wept. Are you gonna urgently convene a troupe of civil servants and lawyers to mull over the legal semantics ....when confronted with an intruder attacking u in your home late at night? You can always ring Josephine Duffy.

    “We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst.”

    ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,276 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Read my posts there Einstein. I am trying to explain to you people why the DPP would try to prosecute for murder in such cases.


    You are the one claiming that the DPP (a civil servant) should have been allowed to decide the guilt or not of one man who killed another



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 980 ✭✭✭Palmach


    Self defence is self defence. Someone enters your house and threatens your family they pay the price,



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 980 ✭✭✭Palmach


    Yes you can. Don't burgle homes and you'll be fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,837 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Your post doesn’t contradict anything I said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭NiceFella


    That's a very simplistic notion of anti social behavior in Ireland.

    Money doesn't solve everything. Families who behave poorly is deeply ingrained and generational. Mental and physical abuse doesn't disappear if you throw money at it. It often makes it worse!



  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭CrookedJack


    You're using that phrase a lot, almost as if you've just learned it and really want someone to comment on it.

    Well here goes - what, specifically is the industry you're referring to in the "Welfare Industrial Complex"? Surely you've not just taken the "Military Industrial Complex" and inserted welfare to make your bias sound more legitimate, right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭NiceFella


    Your right let them starve. Should we have the savagery you see in the US? It would only make things worse.

    The thing is society doesn't care to solve it. It will moan moan all day pointing to very simplistic notions such as what you have put forth.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭NiceFella


    I don't really know how you arrive at having social welfare being an obstacle to enterprise and employment. They co exist peacefully as far as I am aware.

    You know what makes all that possible though, enterprise and that? Being civilized. People are funnily enough not very civil when they are treated poorly.

    I would be far more in favour of mire harsher penalties for anti social behavior though. I definitely think we are a soft touch in that regard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,260 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    In this country you might as well have a coffin ready for them to throw you into after they plunder your house



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