Regulation issue when purchasing a property (driveway / wheelchair access)

demo223 · 30-10-2022 12:15am #1

Went sale agreed, received cert and opinion of compliance of building regulations. I got a structural survey done, which found that a driveway is not compliant due to a fact that it’s a slight slope and there is no level area immediately before entrance.

What should happen here? Note that the house is in an estate build circa 2005, no modification to it since build, majority if not all houses in the estate have the same slope in the driveway.

DOCARCH · 30-10-2022 6:20am

When you say slight slope to the driveway, do you know what the slope is?

demo223 · 30-10-2022 11:10am

Unfortunately I would know exactly, with my uneducated eye I would say it does not exceed 5%. I could share a photo via PM for more context

DOCARCH · 31-10-2022 6:28am

Part M Building Regulations (Access for Disabled People) does allow for sloped/ramped access to houses (which can be the driveway) with slope/ramp of up to 8%, but there should be a level area at least at the front door.

As to your question, what should happen here? I do not know!

Talk to your solicitor and ask, first, is there is an opinion on compliance with building regulations attached to the property?

Peregrinus · 31-10-2022 7:11am

Depends on what your contract says, but typically it will give you the right to decline to complete the transaction until the defect is remedied, or until arrangements satisfactory to you are put in place to have the defect remedied at the vendor's expense. Or you seek a reduction on the purchase price equal to the cost of remedying the defect yourself. In the latter case it's up to you whether you actually go ahead and remedy the defect after completing, but if you don't be aware that when you come to sell the property you may face the same problem, but from the other side.

Big factor here is how keen you are to complete, and how happy you are with the price.

AndrewJRenko · 31-10-2022 7:36am

What does your solicitor advise?

The survey report should be clear on the measure of the slope as this is central to assessing compliance.

Gumbo · 31-10-2022 11:46am

Part M on dwellings is from within the confines of the dwelling boundary. So access only applies to where a visitor would enter or enlighten from a vehicle on site.

I haven't seen many, if any at all pre purchase surveys go this in depth on a building regulation issue.

It would be interesting to see the lay of the land. Maybe there’s an obvious deviation from what was granted planning or really obvious breach which it sounds like there may well be here.

It looks like one of those things that got brushed over during the Celtic Tiger unfortunately.

demo223 · 31-10-2022 3:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119814371#Comment_119814371

There is an opinion as well as the certificate of compliance

Contractor said that he wouldn’t worry too much about it since there is certificate is in place but mentioned it in the report but solicitor is taking it rather seriously

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119814420#Comment_119814420

it was just a visual inspection hence no measurements

AndrewJRenko · 31-10-2022 7:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816001#Comment_119816001

Any opinion on a ramp or slope without measurements seems fairly useless to me. Get it measured.

Gumbo · 01-11-2022 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816642#Comment_119816642

It’s a Pre Purchase inspection. Not a building regulation compliant inspection.

My guess here is that the surveyor mentions it to cover themselves but will not want to get into a legal issue by stating it is not in compliance when another architect has already issued a CoC.

My guess is they the surveyor mentioned it and stated the client should seek confirmation it is in compliance.

Mellor · 06-11-2022 8:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119814399#Comment_119814399

Unless there was a specific clause attached to the offer (that it was to subject to X, comply with Y etc), I think they would have a very hard time voiding a signed contract based on the above. On what legal aspect are you basing that on?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119814420#Comment_119814420

The issue, according to the OP, is the entry landing. Why do you think the precise slope of the driveway is important? We know the ballpark. Whether it is 4% to 6% is not relevant imo, (unless there are other aspects not mentioned by OP). I highly doubt OP would measure it and discover that it is actually 2%.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119814371#Comment_119814371

It should have a landing, for obvious reasons. But, iirc, it was not actually a requirement. Part M for dwellings was in its fledgling stage.

The opinion on compliance is possibly accurate.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816001#Comment_119816001

An opinion as well as a certificate of compliance?

Are they both in relation to Building regs. Or is the certificate in relation to planning? If the former, is the cert the original cert from 2005 or whenever?

AndrewJRenko · 06-11-2022 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119839791#Comment_119839791

Do we really know the ballpark? Could it be 9% or 10% maybe?

Measure it.

Peregrinus · 07-11-2022 2:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119839791#Comment_119839791

It's years since I did any conveyancing work in Ireland but don't the General Conditions of Sale include a warranty that, except as disclosed, all development on the property has been undertaken in compliance with (inter alia) Building Regulations? If so, there looks to be a breach of warranty here for which the purchaser has remedies.

Mellor · 07-11-2022 10:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119840082#Comment_119840082

Yes we know the ball park. OP has inspected it as well a (presumably qualified) engineer.

Lets say it’s measured, and it’s 6%. What has that achieved? Apart from an expense for the OP?

AndrewJRenko · 07-11-2022 11:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119844222#Comment_119844222

Let’s say it is measured at 10% and doesn’t comply with Part M. Should the OP not know this?

Mellor · 08-11-2022 8:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119843655#Comment_119843655

Well, the first question I (or anyone) would ask is where is the breach? Lots of maybes, but nothing on the table in black and white.

The General Conditions of Sale does reference building regs. It includes words to the effect of;

the design of the buildings on the Subject Property is in substantial compliance with the Building Control Acts

How that is verified for the purpose of the sale is a opinion of compliance. Which has been provided. So on that basis, they have met the terms of the general conditions. And it’s up to the person making the claim to prove otherwise.

Then, the clause above says substantial compliance - which inherently allows for minor deviations. (Ignoring the words “design” and “buildings” which is poor legalese imo)

Part M, iirc, does not state what people are suggesting. There should be a landing as I said, bit it was not stated there must be a landing. Deep into subjective territory of compliance at this point. Very hard to make a claim from that position.

I mean, there’s an argument you could use. But there also an obvious defence. I’d feel that’s it’s easier to defend the position personally - but who wants it more if always a factor.

Mellor · 08-11-2022 8:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119844477#Comment_119844477

Its pretty easy to tell the difference between 5% and 10% visually, imo. You said a visual inspection was useless. I disagree. It’s adequate in the vast majority of cases.

OP’s issue is that landing. I imagine he’s looking for guidance on that issue rather than inventing hypothetical ones.

Im sure we can think of any number of things that “might” be non-compliant that we’re not measure.

kieran. · 13-12-2022 5:33pm

There is no legal requirement for a landing or a ramp. The 2000 Part M simply states Section M1 - Adequate provision shall be made to enable people with disabilities to safely and independently access and use a building. The TGD is one way of proving compliance with this requirement but not neccessarily the only way. Is the access provided inadequate for people with disabilities to independently access the building?

Regulation issue when purchasing a property (driveway / wheelchair access)

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