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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Investment in fossil fuels is way too low if we want to ensure security of supply. Remember, Ireland gets 86% of its energy from fossils, a little higher than the global total. It's only the Green nutters who want to cut off our main energy supply before we have a viable alternative. I prefer to keep civilisation alive while we figure out what to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia



    Who is saying we cut off our main energy supply?

    The plan is to wean ourselves off Fossil fuels. No new FF infrastructure, all new infrastructure should be renewable, shut down FF infrastructure as it's no longer needed

    Invest way more in Renewables instead of white elephant FF infrastructure

    It's not complicated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Well it kinda is complicated when ER stops exploration and sits on the hands. On the FF infrastructure it's mostly cables does not care for where the energy comes from. If there was though put into the Gas pipes they should be rated for hydrogen. LNG is the go to atm for transition.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    We have Moffatt

    Unless that blows up. we'll be grand

    And all the panic from a month or 2 ago seems to have died down and wholesale gas prices actually went negative last week as storage was full and supply exceeded demand.

    We should not have hydrogen pipelines, Hydrogen is too small a molecule, it leaks like sh1t. We should have ammonia pipelines, or tankers, which can store hydrogen as reserves for when the doldrums happen (infrequently)

    Interconnectors, ammonia, Batteries (locally, regionally, utility and industrial scale storage) will all make our grid stable and reliable

    This is the future. We can build it now, There will be some role for Nuclear, but I genuinely think it will be priced out of the market as the marginal price of energy from wind/solar/geothermal etc will be close to zero

    Nuclear could barely compete with fossil fuels that have a high marginal cost of energy. they will be white elephants



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Hydrogen pipelines are a terrible idea

    Hydrogen is the smallest element, it leaks between the gaps of any metal we can use to make pipelines from. (its also extremely reactive so creates hydrides on contact with most elements)

    Hydrogen can be stored in a medium, that requires energy to convert into and out of. The most promising one is Ammonia.

    Ammonia can be used to store energy for the rare times when there is a continental scale shortage of renewables.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Thanks for that post. At least some have put thought into what we need to be doing. I'm not 100% onboard with the Ammonia but we can see if it's viable in the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306



    Akrasia: "Wind and solar and storage prices fall over time"

    Also Akrasia: "Irish wind prices? What does that mean?"

    Uh, how difficult can it be? You were the one that used the term "wind prices". Irish wind prices = wind prices in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,564 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    The Ryan clown wanting to sign us up to all sorts despite having zero mandate from the people. RTE shouldn't be releasing stories that have been given a time embargo to release from this arsewipe.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Who is saying we cut off our main energy supply? The plan is to wean ourselves off Fossil fuels. No new FF infrastructure, all new infrastructure should be renewable, shut down FF infrastructure as it's no longer needed. Invest way more in Renewables instead of white elephant FF infrastructure. It's not complicated.

    Infrastructure needs replacing over time. Energy demand grows over time. For both of those you need new fossil fuel infrastructure. I understand that if the Greens can't take us back to living in the 1700s they'd at least like to keep us in the 1980s. In the real world, new stuff needs to get built.

    We have Moffatt. Unless that blows up. we'll be grand.

    I know you probably don't read any news other than the Green Gazette, but FYI there's a natural gas supply crisis in Europe. The UK imports gas from Norway and exports to Ireland (about half of all UK exports) and the Netherlands. LNG is available but there is a shortage of places to land it. Ireland could contribute to the European effort as well as its own security of supply by building an LNG terminal. Not to do so is irresponsible, and is indicative of the selfish and evil Green mindset.

    And all the panic from a month or 2 ago seems to have died down and wholesale gas prices actually went negative last week as storage was full and supply exceeded demand.

    Great. Does that mean we won't be hearing any more about how wind power was nine times cheaper than gas on one day in 2022 (in another country)? Btw, European storage managed to get filled this year but it was largely with Russian gas. We are still facing a supply crunch next year.

    Interconnectors, ammonia, Batteries (locally, regionally, utility and industrial scale storage) will all make our grid stable and reliable

    Sick of telling you that isn't going to happen, so maybe just let us know when it's all available at affordable prices so we can happily join you in ceasing fossil fuel usage. Until then, maybe stop tinkering with the infrastructure that actually keeps our civilisation functioning.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    Most fanatical green alarmists are hypocrites. They are meat eating vegans, crying foul of the doom and gloom, yet continue to consume more CO2 than 80% of the global population.


    it’s grand standing on an epic scale. The fight to save the planet morphed into a wealthy populist campaign, where just believing is enough and action is not required.

    If your footprint is quadruple the average, that’s fine once you public accept that we are all dead and the science is settled.

    Who would of thought that humans could settle science with primitive tools and fundamental lack of understanding with a fraction of data, where one data point covers areas larger that UK, Ireland, and France.

    Planet needs to be respected, sustainable or not many of or activities are destructive and irresponsible. The greens need to knock this dooms day clock nonsense on the head. There are 100s if not 1000s of missed expert predictions. Unfortunately “we don’t know enough, yet” is not allowed in modern science



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why would I need to defend oil companies? They are just businesses doing what businesses do -- selling stuff that people want. It's only the Greenie mindset that paints oil companies as evil polluters, ignoring the fact that it's their customers (all of us) who burn the stuff.

    Hence the need for carbon taxes and the removal of subsidies to increase the cost.

    As can be seen, people will make different choices if motivated appropriately. We can even see it where the massive increases in fossil fuels are spurring a huge explosion in the amount of households looking to install solar, so much so the industry can't keep up with the demand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Hence the need for carbon taxes and the removal of subsidies to increase the cost.

    As can be seen, people will make different choices if motivated appropriately. We can even see it where the massive increases in fossil fuels are spurring a huge explosion in the amount of households looking to install solar, so much so the industry can't keep up with the demand.

    Would you mind outlining exactly which fossil fuel subsidies you would like to see removed? As far as I can see, most people bleating about "subsidies" have just imbibed Green fairytales and don't know what they are or what they're for (generally either employment-related tax rebates that all companies get, or fuel poverty alleviation measures).

    And yes, of course you can incentivise people to act differently if you give them enough grants/freebies. The issue is whether you'll crash the economy doing it. There's no such thing as a "free" government handout: it has to come from either borrowing or taxation. Same with the eye-watering prices we pay to incentivise renewables. Investors are queuing up for the returns -- they'd be stupid not to. You can't run a viable economy that way, though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    And there you have it the greens delusion in a nutshell.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    From today's New York Times:

    Europe braces for a cold winter

    Russia’s weaponization of energy against countries support Ukraine has produced a startling transformation in how Europe generates and saves power. Countries are banding together to buy, borrow and build additional power supplies while pushing out major conservation programs that recall the response to the 1970s oil crisis.

    The all-hands-on-deck effort has some analysts more hopeful than they have been in months that Europe can make it to spring without energy rationing or blackouts, while speeding up the region’s energy independence. Still, the pivot is coming at a high cost, and Europe’s energy security could be undermined in the coming months.

    While Europe has adjusted to Russia’s severe cutbacks in gas exports, gas prices remain historically high, forcing shutdowns at energy-intensive businesses, including the production of steel, chemicals and glass. Amid worker furloughs and growing government debt, projections suggest that the energy crisis will tilt Europe into a recession next year.

    Of course there's no "banding together" from Ireland, where Eamon Ryan is adamant we won't be building an LNG terminal. Europe can get stuffed as far as he's concerned. He either doesn't know or doesn't care that whatever we import from the UK will then not be available to the continent.

    Likewise, he is absolutely determined to scupper indigenous resources. He commissioned a report on the financial viability of the Barryroe partners which was completed in June (according to one of the partners, Lansdowne Oil and Gas). But he sat on it until October 28th and then demanded demonstration of finances within 21 days. It's now a year and a half since the partners applied for a petroleum lease undertaking on a valid existing exploration license. The man is a disgrace.

    Here he is spinning his usual lies in the Dáil (which appears to be completely empty, so he's there for the camera opportunity). "Finding oil/gas is a 100 to 1 shot" ... except we have already FOUND it. We're not talking about wildcat drilling. "It costs $100m a pop" ... except Ireland doesn't pay for it, the costs are born by private investment. But it doesn't matter anyway because "the world is going to burn to a cinder". It's truly remarkable that we've got to the stage where a grown adult (much less a supposedly responsible politician) is allowed to spout such childish nonsense.


    Post edited by ps200306 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,204 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    have you surveyed vegans? or followed them around to catch them eating meat? as if someone like you would know any vegans lol



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,204 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    it's 2 and a bit years until the next general election, so not long at all now. do you think when the greens and eamon are gone that sinn fein will get the ball rolling on drilling for oil and gas? and nuclear?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    I have to say whatever peoples views are in regards to the green agenda on both sides there are valid point but reporting a family in the middle of winter for daring to heat their homes is pretty low.

    Actually its as low as it gets, absolutely stand your corner, argue and push for as many people as possible to change their ways but at a time when everyone is struggling to go out of your way to report your own neighbours is as low as you could go.

    I hope for your own sake youre actually joking because if not ye would want to take a look at yourself.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,248 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    cnocbui threadbanned



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not joking in the least. Everyone is welcome to heat their homes in any way they see fit. Inversely, everyone is entitled to clean air. Where those 2 clash, there is now a method for addressing the pollution.

    I fully intend to make use of it



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    He pulled a few women and felt really great inside. What more would any simpleton want from life?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Looks like the delusion is spreading

    RTE news : Cars with higher emissions could face parking fee hike





  • Registered Users Posts: 3,993 ✭✭✭spaceHopper



    No just no we can't let him sign us up to anything somebody needs to keep and eye on this



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭F34


    Yes let’s penalise more people that can’t afford to purchase a more efficient car typical green let’s tax more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Indeed, I heard that aired this morning. What I took from it is that there are some people who must drive into Dublin city for work purposes. But of these, those who are on higher incomes and can afford EVs will get cheaper parking. Whilst lower paid workers in their petrol/ diesel cars will pay more.

    What sort of gobs run Dublin City if they think this is a logical idea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You have this continual fascination with the Hinkley C £92.5 index linked price as if it is some definitive point in favour of wind over nuclear and it is anything but. The opposite if anything. The latest strike price for Irish just onshore is €97.87 That is an increase of 33% over just 2 years where inflation was as low as 2%.

    When it comes to capacity regarding offshore and nuclear their is no need for the over complication. On another thread you are on, a poster showed the U.K.`s own average rolling capacity for offshore. From memory it was around 43%. Less than half that of nuclear which is consistently in the 90% range.

    I have already shown on numerous occasions how valid €83 Billion CapEx is for offshore, and again as far as I recall a figure that is conservative when compared to East Anglia. Another poster has already shown that for that capital expenditure that 14 APR 1400 reactors would provide us with over triple our present needs. If you just wish to compare to Hinkley C, that €83 Billion would build two Hinkley C`s, where just one based on population would fulfill our present needs, and still leave close to €20 Billion in change. Take your €3 Billion for clean up from that and you are still quids in.

    The sea has turned anything we have ever placed in it into absolute mush. Even living close to it will do the same to any form of machinery, so I would greatly doubt that after 25 years there would be much salvageable to make any great financial savings on the future two cycles costing the equivalent of another CapEx spend equivalent of the original €83 Billion. Meanwhile the original CapEx spend on nuclear would still be churning out 90% plus capacity at a fraction of the cost.

    I get that you are anti nuclear, but there are no simple solutions to attaining zero emissions, but if that is what greens are really serious about then economically offshore falls a long way short when compared to nuclear.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There is virtually nobody that "must drive into Dublin City for work". They choose to because its the most convenient and cheapest option. Not saying there aren't some, but as evidenced by the annual canal cordon traffic survey, the amount driving into the city has been dropping for over a decade while the numbers of people crossing the canal has been growing massively. In fact the numbers driving across the canals has dropped by 49% since 2006 and this year's survey will likely show a bigger jump than normal as more AT & PT options have been implemented post-covid.

    Therefore making it less convenient and more expensive will drive different choices.

    To put it another way, if all parking in Dublin city was to become 50 eur an hour tomorrow, you'd find fk all who actually "must drive into Dublin City for work".



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    There is virtually nobody that "must drive into Dublin City for work"

    And the prize for the most stupid statement in history goes to the above statement.......

    How do you expect deliveries, tradesmen, etc to get into the city or do you not consider them working people ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,244 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Nope. They won't have a majority and it'll be another coalition government full of compromises and kicking the can down the road on numerous issues. In any case their energy policy is against oil and nuclear power being generated in Ireland so don't be looking to them for some sort of way forward on that.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Try reading my post again but hey, if you want to exclude everyone except deliveries and trades, I support you



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