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Russian warship, go f**k yourself!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Absolute copybook whataboutery.

    Vietnam was a disaster from a military perspective but it did slow the advancement of communism.And of course whats never mentioned in Ireland is the fact that is was escalated by one of the holy trinity of Irish mythology (JFK).

    Latin America wasn't one of their finest hours yes but Afghanistan was necessary.Not too hung up on Libya.

    Now compare those wee bits to what they provided to Europe, Japan, South Korea etc since 1945.Who pays for the nuclear umbrella that has kept Soviet tanks behind the Iron Curtain from 1945 till 1990.

    Think the words I used were "more often than not"

    I am of the opinion Irish and European safety is more important than the Yanks bombing some 3rd world s***hole.Perhaps that makes me a racist or selfish or something something but thats my take on it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    I am of the opinion Irish and European safety is more important than the Yanks bombing some 3rd world s***hole

    In the words of Ryan Tubridy when talking about Ukraine and how tragic the situation was, "they look like us"!

    Good to know the motivation for the faux sympathy for the Ukraine is centered around the fear that Putin may come after you. I wonder is that the motivation for most on here?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Does sympathy for Ukrainians bother or concern you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Why do you think its faux sympathy?

    Can one not choose who to be sympathetic about?

    Do I have to have equal opportunity sympathy?

    Sympathy, like charity ,begins at home.

    As regards Putin "coming after me " ?Highly unlikely as long as NATO is around (even if little ol Ireland ain't a member)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Your last paragraph says everything.

    Slave markets in Libya, little rocket man in North Korea, arming terrorists.

    May Lai, Haditha etc.

    Spending trillions on weapons to fight an equivalent enemy that doesn’t exist. Look at the crazy amount of hardware they have when half of it would do and they could have decent roads/bridges instead.

    Looking the other way while journalists are murdered and looking the other way in Yemen Palestine etc.

    There hasn’t been a decent president since JFK. Biden could barely defeat a toxic misogynistic failed businessman.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Ukraine is now and wasn't far off a third world sh1thole before all this started. So what's wrong with what Russia are doing bar they're not on "our side"?

    I presume they'd be fair game for the us to do whatever they wanted to?

    They caused millions of deaths to keep them cemented in place at the top. We benefited of course here, but that doesn't make it right.

    There has been very little argument for the vast majority of their interventions. But who cares about third world sh1tholes especially if they're brown people...



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,673 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    So your argument is basically anti west/US. The US would not need all that hardware except for the USSR and China

    Would Stalin have stopped at Elbe after WW2 or would they have continued to sweep across Europe. Stalin tried to squeeze the western powers out of Berlin, remember the Berlin blockade in 1948

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Blockade#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_Berlin_Blockade_%2824_June%2Cof_Berlin_under_Western_control.?wprov=sfla1

    Towards the end the Western (75% by the US) powers landed or took off a plane every three minutes. It be ase an embarrassment to the USSR so they lifted the blockade after 3 months.

    Dose the US qualify for sainthood no. You complain about the US not using this money to build bridges. You could make the same statement about modern Russia. Putin could have used the massive amount of money he got for Russian natural resources for the betterment of the Russian people. However he allowed the oligarchs to siphon it off and has been spending more on his military adventurism over the last twenty years

    Soo bla bla bla we are back to what about the US.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    It's not really what about the US. It's why do we insist on trying to cut our feet off (we are going beyond shooting ourselves in the foot) in the name of not supporting something we don't agree with (while others have done at least similar and we weren't bothered).

    If we hadn't built so much of our prosperity to be reliant on Russia, it wouldn't be so much of an issue. But we have, so either we play a long game to transition away slowly or we create massive instability here in Europe by trying to do it fast and hammering the common person.

    What happens when people go to the next election? Sinn fein waltz in. Will they be good for me and you bass, not a hope.

    Across Europe there is a big political shift starting to occur also, that's only going to intensify as job losses start to take hold and many industries seek to shift production away from high cost Europe.

    Where does that leave us all in the long term?

    There would want to be a serious threat to Europe to justify this response. There isn't and it's very hard to see what makes this conflict so much worse than others in the not too distant past.

    All of this is great for America though. The support for Ukraine is free because they just print some extra money, booming energy exports and they will get to take a share of EU manufacturing also.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭Field east


    What about that cyber attack on the HSE ? Can we, for example stomach two + of them per year . Or if we are successful and avoid an attack every , then at what monetary cost which hold have a direct impact on the cost of living



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My argument is that Russian actions have been reprehensible but let’s not kid ourselves about the Americans.

    The Americans have been overreaching in foreign policy for years. Don’t forget “Yatz is our guy” https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

    The US spends way over twice the combined spend of China and Russia on its military and is already around 20 years ahead of them in terms of tech.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Thought we we discussing the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

    For some ,every event is an opportunity to insert some "Yankee go home " rhetoric.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It’s all related though. US foreign policy hasn’t been squeaky clean, including actions in Ukraine



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Not a bit, it's your lack of concern for those not Ukranian that concerns me.

    Very unsettling



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Nobody is claiming that US foreign policy is squeaky clean.The reality is that since 1945 there has been 2 conflicting systems and any pretense that they are equal is ridiculous beyond belief.

    We(Ireland) are not some unaffected observer despite our pretend neutrality.We are part of "the West" and have derived most if not all our benefits from that.

    Closer to home compare and contrast US policy with that of Soviet Union/Russia in regards to NI.Who helped and who tried to destabilise the situation?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Should we pretend so?

    Its easier to have concern for those closer to home.Perhaps Ryan Tubridy was correct in that "they look like us"

    People naturally identify with those who are like themselves.In general people are more concerned with people they know ,then people who live in their own area.After that its their own countrymen.

    Look at RTE/TV3 etc.They carry much more current affairs content from UK, Canada, US ,Australia, France ,Germany etc.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I never said they were equal. I said the US are hardly heroes based on the military misadventures they have been involved in for the last 50 odd years.

    The Russian invasion is reprehensible. It was done under a false pretence but the US has also invaded nations / intervened under false pretence.

    The US turned their backs on Afghanistan and left them with billions in military hardware. Fellas hanging out of planes trying to escape etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I have plenty of concern about other conflicts and situations however this is a thread about the war in Ukraine (which is directly impacting my life)

    Your comment is bald-faced virtue signaling, the equivalent of joining a thread on Uighurs bitter than people aren't "concerned like you are" about another conflict or situation. It's whataboutery and human suffering isn't a competition.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Russia is invading Ukraine. Unfortunately some individuals want to use these threads to shift the blame onto other nations they have personified as "bad". They distill complex history down into black/white narratives, whereby a country somehow has a "personality" that they don't like.

    Objective criticism is fine, but it's very clear when someone has an agenda.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Being accused of virtue signaling by the likes of yourself is nothing short of astonishing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Its easier to have concern for those closer to home.Perhaps Ryan Tubridy was correct in that "they look like us"

    To try to understand your viewpoint, what has Ukraine had in common with Ireland over the past few years?

    It's hardly been a Western utopia



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Well as the EU expands eastwards ( from Irelands point if view not maybe the best idea) Ukraine would probably be looking at joining in the next 10/15 years.

    Seems to have helped other Eastern European States anyways.

    From what little I have read Ukraine has vast natural resources which would be better in the EU than outside and under Russian control from our point of view.

    Nobody is claiming it was or is a " western utopia ".Maybe we should give them a chance to see if they could be ?Not much hope if another Russian proxy state like Belarus.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    You're confusing trying to benchmark this conflict against others with trying to defend Russia's actions.

    Sanctions hurt us irrespective of their effect on Russia.

    If we want to look after ourselves first, surely we shouldn't get carried away with sanctions? Putting in place more sanctions than would have been in place for similar conflicts in the past is beyond stupid...

    Putin has a long long way to go to catch up with Hitler.

    In the last 20 years circa 400,000 civilians have died violently due to US wars. Multiples more due to the problems they caused. One would imagine since none of those wars attracted sanctions, Putin must have well over a million civilians dead already in Ukraine....

    If Russia wasn't such an important part of our economy, it wouldn't really be so much of an issue. But there is a massive cost to all of this and getting hysterical about 'Putler' only sets us up to be in a very bad position for the long term. Which is not the point of sanctions...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So are we at a stage where objective criticism requires only criticism of Russian reprehensible action and not the US?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Why does a situation have to have something in common with Ireland?

    Very odd pretext, do you ask people who are very concerned about the plight of Uighurs or the Ethiopians or the Palestinians the same question in those discussions?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    All sides can be criticised. It's not mutually exclusive. However, as mentioned, some individuals just want to use this discussion, and any others, to criticise the same target to an absurd degree, reaching decades back into history to grind some axe they have. There's nothing objective about that approach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,673 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    ''Sanctions hurt us irrespective of their effect on Russia.


    If we want to look after ourselves first, surely we shouldn't get carried away with sanctions? Putting in place more sanctions than would have been in place for similar conflicts in the past is beyond stupid.''


    So basically we should look after ourselves. You could exoand that further. Do not give to charities sure I am fine. Why give to earthquake victims we do not have earthquakes in Ireland. Maybe we should round up all the elderly over 70 who are not productive in society and send them to a gas chamber. I forget who used to use gas chambers

    You have been harping on about we should support sanctions because of the effect they have on the EU. You are constantly harping on that we should abandon the Ukraine. Basically you are an apologist for totalitarian dictatorships

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We are a neutral country here.

    There is nothing wrong with pointing out that though Russian actions have been reprehensible that the Americans are no angels either. “Yatz is our guy” was 2014.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    We throw a few pennies to all those causes and that's grand. But the cost of all this is in a totally different league. Costs to Europe will clear a trillion easily by the time increased costs and lost output are allowed for.

    It also undermines all of our future earnings in the EU, and that's before we have Ukraine begging for money to rebuild.

    There has to be some thought given to what's a rational amount of financial/economic pain that can be tolerated for Ukraine. It most definitely is not, whatever it takes. Things break when you push them too far. It's not the case that the end result of all this is just a little more expensive electricity, higher fert prices etc but things will largely continue on as normal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,673 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Your attitude and reasoning is a piece of sh!t. If you want to be ruthless economically when Ukraine restores its borders the EU will have access to reliable and secure gas and energy supplies from Ukrainian's sources. As well by bringing the Ukraine into the EU we get to control the breadbasket of the world.

    Short term pain longterm gain. And we get to leave Russia continue as the sh!thole it always was. History has taught short-term appeasement of dictators is not beneficial longterm

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    If someone wants to criticise the Putin administration, that's relevant, if they want to criticise the Biden administration in relation to Ukraine, that's relevant.

    The issue is that certain individuals are here to systematically engage in out of context criticism of one or two countries, fixatedly, reaching back into the depths of history with no limits.

    Clare Daly and Mick Wallace are examples of this, they pay a one-line lip-service to "Putin is evil but" then launch into one of their diatribes, a dumbed down selective history of the world whereby one or two countries are the "villains" in every situation. Everything they say it heavily tainted by their almost fanatical hatred of certain countries, stuff that would make the Taliban blush.

    There's a spectrum of that going on in these threads.



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