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New party vote share?

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  • 04-11-2022 2:16pm
    #1
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭


    If a new party formed that campaigned to abolish LPT and USC. Which can easily be afforded. Given the billions they squander every budget, would you expect it to win many seats ? A party that would start addressing the waste, change the system, rather than the easy route every existing party wants to take... particularly FFG. By that I mean just throwing mad money at areas, that wont ever solve the problem ...

    On top of that a credible plan to sort the housing situation...

    I propose raising taxes in other areas, to offset some of the cost of my proposed measures. New petrol and diesel cars, significant increase in motor tax. Significant taxes on derelict or unused property...

    Of course I also propose using the endless magic money tree ffg use to squander billions, the growing economy....



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    #2
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,674 ✭✭✭Allinall


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058270402/new-party-vote-share

    I wouldn't say they would win any seats at their first election.

    No proven track record. Unless the new party was a breakaway from an existing mainstream party. Then it might have a chance.



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    #3
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,691 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    2%, that's the figure available for and shared between all similar parties.



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    #4
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 82,415 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Increasing motor tax on petrol and diesel cars which circa 95% plus of vehicles on the road are would kill off the party in a single election.

    To see how to come from absolutely nothing to something have a look at the last Presidential campaign and the progress of Peter Casey.



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    #5
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,691 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832706#Comment_119832706

    Who has since failed to get elected to anything and is in that magic 2% band now.



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    #6
    Fandymo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058270402/new-party-vote-share

    I think Ireland is prime for a new “working persons” party.

    Get rid of USC and LPT. I’d also remove VRT and MUP.

    Bring in more tax bands so that everyone pays their share, but those on the higher end pay relative to what those on the lower end pay.

    Sort out the eviction legislation to make it both fair and a lot more streamlined.

    Reform AGS.

    Reform social welfare. You get back what you put in. Make children's allowance a large tax credit rather than just cash to encourage more decent people to have children.

    Reform the HSE.

    Move to food and energy security for Ireland.

    Tough on actual crime, not thought crimes.

    Tough on illegal immigration.

    More prison and juvenile detention spaces.

    A lot less NGO’s.

    A moratorium on international aid, and then extremely strict criteria on where it goes.

    It’s an open goal for anyone with some common sense. If the money in Ireland was put to good use the place could improve tenfold.

    More stick, less carrot for the scum.

    Less stick, more carrot for those who contribute.



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    #7
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832744#Comment_119832744

    This is just empty populism. If there was a market for this kind of thing, there'd be an established party pushing it.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #8
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Pity Creighton nailed her colours to the waste of time that was the abortion issue. It was always going go pass eventually and is a messy area... I think for many people minded like myself, spoiling a vote and writing something like " non of those running represent my views " might encourage a new party to form... I mean peter Casey sent from less than a percent of the vote to 23% in the presidential, by speaking the truth. A general election v the presidential is obviously different, but the electorate do want to give a serious kicking to the establishment...



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    #9
    Augme
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Augme


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832875#Comment_119832875


    A small percentage of the electorate are happy to give a kicking to the establishment in a meaningless election is much more accurate summary.



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    #10
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,099 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832828#Comment_119832828

    There is, aren't they called Sinn Féin.



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    #11
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,362 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832721#Comment_119832721

    Finished second last in the GE in his 'native' Donegal, only ahead of another right-wing headbanger who didn't have the advantage of being off da telly...



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    #12
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832706#Comment_119832706

    On new diesel and petrol cars only. We have no motoring industry here... I have and had large engines petrol cars crucified on the old taxation system... replacing " polluting" diesel and petrol with new " clean" "polluting " that have as good as free motor tax, is nothing but a money grab on the vrt and vat, optics, farce...



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    #13
    Fandymo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832828#Comment_119832828

    Wanting your country to be the best version of itself is populism?? Jesus the lefties are very screwed up.



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    #14
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832706#Comment_119832706

    I think him in the party, but not as leader, would work better... get him and maybe Creighton onside as leader... a credible plan on housing and to get rid of lpt and usc...



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    #15
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832875#Comment_119832875

    And Jeremy Corbyn lost the election but won the argument. We ended up with a Conservative governemnt.

    The problem with being at either end of the spectrum is that you inevitably end up with a large amount of anti-vaxxers, climate deniers, racists and other cultural refuse. UKIP over here had the same problem.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #16
    Fandymo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832905#Comment_119832905

    Open Borders, no deportation, give the lifetime dolers everything they want Sinn Fein?? Have you travelled from the 80/90s in a DeLorean?



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    #17
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832905#Comment_119832905

    Possibly on the housing side. But not on the " early riser" side, or at least that's the way it appears...



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    #18
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832828#Comment_119832828

    No. Simply nobody has the balls here to stand up to rte and the left wing media. That's the issue. You think there is no demand for a change from FFG and for those that are sick of them, old fg voters, that they see SF as the answer ? Lol !



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    #19
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,362 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832905#Comment_119832905

    SF are in favour of?


    Tough on actual crime, not thought crimes.

    Tough on illegal immigration.

    More prison and juvenile detention spaces.

    A lot less NGO’s.

    A moratorium on international aid, and then extremely strict criteria on where it goes.

    Anything to back that up?



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    #20
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832968#Comment_119832968

    This isn't true. The simple fact is that while people might be happy to whinge and moan about certain things, Ireland remains an extraordinarily well governed country and most people know this. Nobody wants to rock the boat and elect cranks, especially after what happened in the UK.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #21
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058270402/new-party-vote-share

    The track record of such small state parties in Ireland has been the likes of Renua, which have been socially conservative dustbins with economic libertarianism tacked onto the side.



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    #22
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832979#Comment_119832979

    Housing? Appalling. Law and order a farce. Infrastructure a farce. Environmental- poor. Outrageous rate of marginal tax that hits even the poor ? Yes... health a farce. If you are one of the groups of pensioners or long term welfare claimants, yes, financially this country will be far better for you than our European peers...



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    #23
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,099 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832744#Comment_119832744

    "Get rid of USC and LPT. I’d also remove VRT and MUP.

    Bring in more tax bands so that everyone pays their share, but those on the higher end pay relative to what those on the lower end pay.

    Sort out the eviction legislation to make it both fair and a lot more streamlined.

    Reform AGS.

    Reform social welfare. You get back what you put in. Make children's allowance a large tax credit rather than just cash to encourage more decent people to have children.

    Reform the HSE.

    Move to food and energy security for Ireland.

    Tough on actual crime, not thought crimes.

    Tough on illegal immigration.

    More prison and juvenile detention spaces.

    A lot less NGO’s.

    A moratorium on international aid, and then extremely strict criteria on where it goes."



    All above would be on or in around the SF agendas? They're an inward looking republican nationalist party. OK, they might go heavy on 'thought crimes' and easier on 'social welfare reform'.



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    #24
    Murph85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832993#Comment_119832993

    I agree. Socially just go the populism route. Send up the jute like the rest of the spineless dail wasters do... Its economically, I'd go reform and reward workers... times now are very different to when the pd s or renua were around....



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    #25
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Happyhouse22


    To be honest from knowing a few TD’s personally - one of whom was a minister and another an independent TD in more recent times- I doubt it would easy to change anything.Everyone likes to blame the current government but ultimately a lot of the inefficiencies are instrinally built in to the system and will probably never change - and certainly not my a new inexperienced and idealistic party.

    That said if they had good policies I might vote for them!



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    #26
    Fandymo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832979#Comment_119832979

    So now, wanting your country to be the best version of itself makes you a crank. Jesus wept.



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    #27
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119833138#Comment_119833138

    Except this isn't what I said. The hysterics aren't helping.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #28
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119832744#Comment_119832744

    This is completely laughable.

    LPT isn't a tax on working, it is a tax on property. So how can abolishing LPT be a proposal for a "working persons" party.

    USC is charged on all unearned income, and doesn't have the exemptions that income tax has. From a "working persons" party perspective USC is therefore better than income tax.

    USC also has more bands than income tax, and is more progressive than income tax so does the job of "more tax bands so that everyone pays their share, but those on the higher end pay relative to what those on the lower end pay" better than income tax. Doubling the rates of USC while abolishing income tax would be a much better outcome for working people.

    What does food and energy security mean? Is this a return to national isolation like in 1930s Ireland, and the relative living standards of workers that applied then? Not a good look for workers.

    If you truly want a party that works for working people, you would favour the abolition of income tax, increases in LPT, the abolition of zero-rated VAT, increased USC to replace income tax, while maintaining its progressive nature, etc., pretty much the opposite of your tax proposals.



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    #29
    Fandymo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119833005#Comment_119833005

    SF were an inward looking Republican nationalist party years ago. Now it’s a “Brits Out, everyone else in” party.



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    #30
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,136 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Why would you want to get rid of the LPT? It's already kept artificially low by most councillors. It's one of the few taxes that taxes wealth. If you get rid of that you'll just end up hammering income instead (as usual)

    FF got rid of property tax back in 1977 (along with car tax) and it set the stage for the 1980's depression. It took the IMF to bring it back since no party was grown up enough to make the decision themselves.



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    #31
    Fandymo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119833214#Comment_119833214

    USC was a “temporary” tax. It can be abolished and income tax bands remodelled. The name of it doesn’t matter.

    Food and energy security would include nuclear power, and incentives to farm decent arable land to reduce the need to import, say 72,000 tonnes of potatoes or 29,000 tonnes of tomatoes or 15,000 tonnes of lettuce as we did in 2017 say. We are a small island. A war on the European mainland/U.K. could have huge knock on effects on the food supply to Ireland. No idea why this would laughably lead to “national isolation”. Would Europe shun us if we grew our own food?? What we don’t need currently could be exported, but the infrastructure would be in place in case of emergency.



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