Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Most LCD and ‘Christmas’ lights will work on a 3 or a 5. You can buy full set in ***** for €1.50 and ‘save’ the 13’s for kettles etc (if required).

• i have seen both ca and ce on Chinese made products.

@Sam Russell 'Anyway, can this be close as it is off topic.'

Sorry, but my post (and link) was around UK tearing up CE certification and implementing their own standards post Brexit, so I would have thought it was on topic.

An interesting article which touches on a number of points recently discussed here

An analysis of where the UK finds itself today and how it can move forward with a more pragmatic relationship with the EU.

The readers comments below the article are interesting. Firstly, the idea of re-joining the EU is being discussed, with all the difficulties that would entail being acknowledged. And also that Starmer and the Labour party are in danger of missing the boat on this and being behind public opinion. As the majority of people are seeing Brexit as a bad decision Starmer is still pushing the 'Make Brexit Work' argument. If he continues down this road, he is likely to be out manoeuvred by a more pragmatic Tory leader in the future.

However, there seems to be no real appetite to implement the NI Protocol, with a lot of commentators suggesting that the Protocol is the problem rather the solution to a hard Brexit. Even Irish media, reporting from NI, continually quote the DUP telling us what is wrong with the Protocol but never seem to report on those businesses and people who are benefitting from the Protocol. And without the Protocol row being sorted , all other discussions with EU will stall.

Rejoining is not an option.

It might look like it according to that comment section but btl on the Guardian isn't a great indicator of the national mood.

Some polls suggest 57/43 in favour of rejoining the EU itself. Surely we are rapidly heading towards a clear majority being in favour of applying to rejoin the SM at this rate. I reckoned with a generation and then thought about a decade but now I'm not sure that one of the big two parties won't have an about face and make rejoining the SM a manifesto promise. Their economy is in tatters, much lower growth than even the Eurozone and arguably the Eurozone is more exposed to the war stuff. Who knew that being in a big club would offer some protection....

But just like Brexit itself was never just about what the UK want, rejoining isn't simply whether the UK wants to.

EU have hated this entire episode and frankly, has been treated with total disrespect by the UK. So there are a lot of bridges to be rebuilt even to think that the likes of France and Germany will bother with another potential farce.

The other problem is that the EU will want a clear commitment from the UK. Like joining the Euro. And that is not going to be acceptable in the medium term in the UK.

The damage that Brexit has done, ironically given the demands for sovereignty, is that the UK has put itself entirely at the mercy of others.

The UK thought it held all the cards on leaving, well the EU will hold all the cards if they ever do try to rejoin. Because the only reason they will look to rejoin is that the UK has accepted that leaving was a mistake, and as such, they need the EU more than the EU needs them.

I don't think there will be another referendum until the UK is effectively in the EU without the vote by rejoining the SM and CU. I think one or both of the big parties will eventually declare these desires in their manifesto. This would just be the process working as it normally does in the UK, referendums being rare exceptions. There might be a referendum in the far future about membership but I expect that really will take a generation.

The EU member states would be pretty happy having a neutered UK back in the single market and customs union. Solves a whole raft of problems, not least the protocol stuff. I can see an insistence on EU customs officials having a presence in Felixstowe though. The UK even as a member state was known to allow Chinese made counterfeit goods in all too easily.

Question for the experts...say the UK rejoined the SM and CU. They would obviously have to accept full FoM but would they have a right to make use of the Dublin convention to ship would be asylum seekers back to France or is that only an option for EU member states?

A fascinating aspect of the whole Brexit malarkey is how Nigel Farage has reinvented himself from being a "Eurosceptic" to a BNP / Enoch Powell type ranting about refugees and asylum seekers. He rarely if ever mentions the EU or Europe these days.

You'd wonder when the penny will finally drop with the English public that Brexit was mostly rooted in the politics and ideology of the far right and that Euroscepticism is not an accurate description of what was going on.

They voted to leave in 2016. A democratic decision to regain national independence.

They are not in the EU now where countries are "encouraged" to vote until the "right" answer is received.

Not the same and you know it.

Not debating with disingenuousness like that.

Ireland, France and the Netherlands would like their democracies back. All overturned or refused the right of another vote because it would have reaffirmed their "no".

We weren't allowed to say "no".

It's as simple as that.

With Lisbon we were threatened and then offered "concessions" not worth the paper written on just to spare blushes for the Irish people told to right the wrong.

Pretending we all don't know this is totally ridiculous. Everyone knows.

So it's not democratic to address issues/concerns raised following an initial vote?

The big question is whether England would have lurched to the right in the way it has since 2016 'without' Brexit (it probably wouldn't). But as I said Brexit may well ultimately turn out to be a very good thing for Europe. Clearly the current incarnation of GB would be a terrible fit for the EU for a whole host of reasons, which is why there will be no re-entry for decades at least.