A global recession is on the horizon - please read OP for mod warning

Looks like people think the oil price might be heading up and obviously bi-products of oil also such as diesel and heating oil which would not help inflation. They could be wrong like.

The universal charge was already there before being asked to pay for water. This is the kind of argument that gets my blood boiling how much more tax do you want hard working people to pay and how many more services are we going to lose? Years ago your tax covered all use on roads (no toll bridges), your bins, you didn't have to pay an additional tax after paying 8% stamp duty on your house. How much more have this cohort of people to take in a reduction in what they get from the state and with regards to how much comes out of their pocket.

Fears of tight supply on the oil front.

When telecom was run by the State (P&T), you had to wait nine months for a telephone line.

There's pros and cons to state/private. Definitely not a clear cut black and white type subject imo.

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Unfortunately I think you maybe right. Again bad management by governments to allow this to happen. They allowed the economy to go to a level where it is not sustainable. It just can't staying going like that. I prefer to see the eccomy tick along at a lower pace and not go out of control like it is now. It's all pure greed again and as always the working class individual will fare out the worst.

From Jan 2023 the Jobseekers payment is €220 A couple with two children would receive €450 per week. That’s €22984 plus a bonus week each year so €23434.

The fuel allowance that they would qualify for is €924. Back to school clothing and footwear for 2 kids €520.

Thats €24868. With the HAP you mentioned €21000. That’s €45868 net. (I just took HAP from above post I’ve no knowledge of this amount myself). So

Take out the idea of being lazy etc and look at it from a practical standpoint. A family taking home €45868 plus medical card would have to seriously consider the advantages, costs and relative instability of taking a job with the rates as they are. It’s not always a case of not wanting to work plenty families would be worse off. ( I want to caveat that by saying I’m not on any social welfare or HAP myself).

I know where’s my tax all gone to now!

mid class is fucked becoz of this system

i work 48 hours a week and get taxed so much so some people can put up their feet.

That's where the extra few jobs during the week for cash in hand comes in. 100 a day for a few days a week along with all that and your well on the way to a happy existence with a holiday to Spain every year.

I agree but I think some people are stuck. I’m sure many people on welfare would much prefer to work and dole bashing does very little for their self esteem or mental health.

Life is not straightforward and bills need to be paid. It can be very hard to let go of a guaranteed amount that means your family is fed, warm, sheltered and can afford all the basic's. It could mean initial extra costs of childcare, vehicle car, different clothes etc.

There are plenty of people in low paid jobs and for whatever reason that is what suits them and where they will continue to work. If they earned €15 for 40 hours a week that’s €600. They’d take home €546 per week. They’d get €63.60 in working family payment so €609.60. You’d lose fuel allowance of €17.76 (divided over 52 weeks). So you go from €467.76 per week (€450 plus €17.76 fuel allowance is €467.76) to €609.60 a gain of €141.84. Out of this €141.84 you’d have a higher rent payment now you are working (HAP differential rent changes with income) and travel costs. So let’s say rent went up by €30 a week that brings your extra money down to €111.84 and €50 (diesel/bus/train) already your down to being €61.84 better off working 40 hours then not working. Could be leas if you rent is higher or costs of travelling to work. Could be less again if you’re on less than €15 per hour.

It can’t be a them versus us problem. How can people the system be more equitable without leaving people who need to be on welfare for a time bereft or stuck in a cycle.

Just to add in context of this thread I was having this exact conversation as breakdown with my sister yesterday evening. She has a small restaurant that is struggling to find staff. Due to costs and seasonal footfall she’s only open for Dinner 5 days a week (closed Monday and Tuesday). She pays €15 an hour to wait staff for up to 40 hours a week hence my calculations above.