Is WHS fit for purpose

Do it once in my club and you are out of the next 3 comps, do it again and you are suspended from all comps until it’s explained

If you set up the app to return a score and fail to do so after 4 days, you get an automatic penalty score applied. Can be appealed to Handicaps Committee with valid explanation.

If you don't play a hole in a strokes comp you get a net double bogey (0 points) applied for that hole.

If you fail to return a score in a club competition, it is up to the club committees to deal with it.

Recommended penalties:

Reason : Penalty Score Non-valid reason (e.g. memory or not realising a score had to be returned in such situations as injury, failing light, dangerous weather etc.)

Penalty Score: A score equivalent to the current Handicap Index should be submitted to the WHS Platform (i.e. an Adjusted Gross Score which would be equivalent to the Course Rating + Course Handicap).

Reason: Possible attempt to keep handicap low

Penalty Score : A score equivalent to the Adjusted Gross Score of the highest return in the last 20 scores should be submitted to the WHS Platform.

Reason: Possible attempt to build a handicap

Penalty Score: A score equivalent to the Adjusted Gross Score of the lowest return in the last 20 scores should be submitted to the WHS Platform.

As someone mentioned, the minimum manual adjustment to HI is 1.0.

No

anything this easily manipulated is not fit for purpose regardless of other pro's, that is such a fundamental flaw

That article says very little anyway. Annoyingly, he spends most of it explaining that golf is self regulated / that breaking or bending rules is looked on differently to other sports. Denis, if you're reading this, I can assure you that no non-golfers are going to read an article about changing handicap systems!

I'd love actual data on it, but I don't know when if ever we'll get it. I wonder do they not want to release it as it will add fuel to the fire of people giving out about the system.

I also think though that listening to people you would think that this system is almost universally hated because it doesn't work. Whereas lookin at the poll here 2 thirds of people seem to feel it does work. I wonder are those who are unhappy with it just the loudest.

I agree fully. I made the point (I'm pretty sure here) that we're now more aware than ever of those outlier scores. Before whatsapp and twitter and boards, if someone shot 50 points he was the talk of the club and there was probably a small amount of chat about it in clubs locally. Now, if someone shoots 50 points in a club I never heard of before in Tipperary, his score and handicap record are screenshotted and shared around the country. So even when you're hearing about these scores more, it doesn't mean they are happening more. They might be, but not necessarily. For example, I haven't seen those scores in my home club at all. And the one closest to my house I'm told scores in the mid-40s almost never happen. But I know a club in Tipperary has a serious problem with them.

And I much prefer it too. Were it not for WHS I'd have 3 counting scores this year. Instead I have 13. And from the start of the year I've been cut 5.3 shots. Under the old system I'd have received .3 shots back.

Is Ireland the only place that doesn't apply the course rating to the handicap calculation?

I think the feedback in the UK is similar to Ireland in terms of seeing a similar spike in the big numbers winning competitions

I like it.

I used to play golf 20+ years ago. I was given a customary 18 handicap and could never compete in club contests. Gradually improved, but got cut to 16 when I still was way off competing.

Back playing for the past year, got initial WHS of 35.2. Have won a cat3 and came 2nd in three others. Felt great. It encouraged me to play every week and in every club contest. If I'm in a scramble, I'm not a liability. I'm now 26.4, have had lessons and have been encouraged to look at representing the club. If it was the old system, I would not have played with such vigor

The WHS is not perfect and it could do with tweaking (maybe a limit on the number of casual rounds counting and a penalty for not having x number of official rounds each year), but its a million miles better from the previous system and those that "cheat" it are usually found out anyway

That’s what I sort of expected tbh. Our natural inclination towards a rule seems to be “how can I get round that” rather than “how do I comply with that” (and not just in golf). I think it was half acknowledged under CONGU with the ESR being mandatory in Ireland but not in the UK. Meh, it’s neither here nor there anyway I suppose, we’d look like awful t1ts at this point if we tried to opt out of a worldwide system because of a few rogues in clubs.

This could be what BN is referring to..

Cheers Billy. It's good to read but my hunger is insatiable! One clubs data doesn't satisfy me. I'd want to see something like the hdid data (say for comp scores across Ireland for a year).

It looks like you've broken down your membership by handicap ranges which is useful. But I'd hazard a guess that the single digit guys play more on average than guys in their 20s. So maybe the percentage of winners in those ranges is similar to the percentages of them in the club, but really I'd want to see what the percentage is in relation to competition entrants.

I was tempted to say the same about forgetting CONGU, but I wonder would a little analysis of it help people to let go of it. I get the impression that a lot of people feel that CONGU was fair or the right way to do things. And i doubt that's the case. A single digit guy might have had 3 times the liklihood of winning a comp under it that a 20 handicapper had. And now if they've the same liklihood I can see why he'd feel hard done, but what might have changed is that it's fair now and wasn't then.

And for the casual rounds, the question there is how they compare to competition rounds. Are people building handicaps with casual rounds or are they just using it to keep their handicap current?

My gut tells me that the new system is a significant improvement on the old one. Not better in every way, but better overall. But I'd love to see proper golf Ireland stats on it that shed light on some of the criticisms of it.

Well, our regular comps have 1 overall prize and 4 categories with equal numbers of golfers in each category so that evens out the prizes.

 But I'd hazard a guess that the single digit guys play more on average than guys in their 20s. 

Not sure about this without further analysis, but I'd say you're incorrect. Guys who would play more would be older, retirees and not many are single figures.

And for the casual rounds, the question there is how they compare to competition rounds. Are people building handicaps with casual rounds or are they just using it to keep their handicap current?

GI reporting is available on this and it is monitored. Even with stats, handicap building is a difficult thing to determine. As you can see from above 53% had no casual rounds. Other golfers play a lot of casual rounds, often in a wide variety of courses. I would expect they would not score as well on these on their home course. I believe very few engage in handicap building .

Category prizes are a good idea and certainly fair. But you still have an overall prize and that's the one I'm sure people want to win most. A lot of people's perception is that the lower handicaps barely have a chance of winning that. And real stats on it would show people that that is or isn't the case.

The fact that we're guessing in opposite ways about what handicaps play more often actually backs up the point that we're all forming opinions based on guesswork and without proper stats none of us really have a clue.

And as regards the casual rounds - the concern is that people are using them to build handicaps. Some think this is what they're mainly used to do. So the question is whether allowing them is leading to higher or lower handicaps or on average keeping them the same. The fact that people are submitting them doesn't indicate that they're working or not at all.

Our club has a book in operation for casual rounds (need to sign for €5 to be taken from your "competition" purse). From a few glances at the book, it's disproportionately the lower guys playing casual rounds... Lots and lots of young members on it, with more time I assume, who were looking to get their HC down as much as possible.

There were certainly none of the usual suspects on it. Maybe the €5 and the fact that you have to write it in the book has been a deterrent. Or maybe they're happy enough to just play very poorly during competition rounds these days. Possibly settled into a groove/can manage it well from there.

The winning teams so far in our winter league had some horrendous ends to the qualifying season. Scores of 22-24 points being returned in 18 holes comps for the last few weeks of qualifying. I've given up being annoyed by it, there's very little to be done so just let them off... If they want to carry shots and have the stigma attached to them, then off they go. I've finally reached the acceptance stage.