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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Deegan was neck and neck with both Conan and Doris before he got sidelined by injuries. Coombes being great from 5ms out doesn't matter much if he's doing shag all to make up the 90+ ms to get there.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    But he's not doing "shag all" in the 90m's + to get there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Ah lads, Coombes is a lineout option, great to steal ball on the ground, an offensive weapon with ball in hand and makes his tackles and then some.

    He's not just some big lump that runs at the opposition, he's got plenty of strings to his bow.

    Hopefully he'll bounce back from this and become an option again.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Which just proves it's facile to judge what a player is capable of on a single game.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    That assertion is so disingenuous it's barely worth debating. If we were to measure the international quality of every player on a one off game then test matches would have ceased to exist long ago.

    Coombes was the outstanding Irish player against the Maori. He's been phenomenal for the last two and a half seasons. Maybe he isn't what Farrell is looking for, fair enough, I think it's a poor choice but fair enough. However, the suggestion that Coombes is somehow lacking as a player is very wide of the mark. He's a fantastic tight carrier with excellent hands who's great over the ball. He's also a fine line out option.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I had high hopes for him, but he's consistently failed to deliver to the required standard. He was particularly poor last Friday. You can say whatever you like about it being a scratch team, but he looked abject. We hear the knock against players like Cooney, who never get a chance, that they're great at club level but not good enough for international rugby. Coombes could well be in that category



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Cooney is 32. Coombes is 24. They're at entirely different points in their career.

    And Coombes has gone well in Europe in the past.

    To get "his does shag all in the other 90+ metres" based on last Friday's game is ridiculous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Hyperbolic perhaps but that's what's on tape. NZ were an equally scratch team and played us off the park.

    I hope he can come back again and perform, but to date he's not it



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    It's a single game. It's the equivalent of watching him vs Toulouse and thinking he should be European player of the year.

    (I'm pretty sure you know it's a silly suggestion too)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Timoney was gash! But he's very athletic and has played v NZ. It's possible that Faz wants faster players? I expect to see Timoney play this week.

    Coombes is in a bad situation. Hescompeting with Conan and Doris for the starting shirt. He's competing with Deegan for the fringe minutes. I think Conan and Doris are better players and Deegan without his run of injury, could have been in the top 2.

    Either way, the depth at 8 is insane. No one even mentions Boyle! Another good player. Timoney also plays 8 and 6, at a high level. Similar to Jordi a few years ago. I think Coombes could get back into the reckoning and the match this week is a chance to impress. A gnarly big Bokke pack, no better proving ground.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Deegan has never been neck and neck with Conan and Doris. He has been consistently behind them and Doris very, very quickly overtook him.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Ireland were even more "scratch" than that NZ team. They had two training sessions together. Ross molony didn't even train with the squad.

    They were certainly out of their confirm zone and deliberately so by all accounts.

    On coombes, he has the physically and traits to be a top level player, but there's are some minor deficiencies in his game which may stop him reaching those very top levels if he doesn't deal with them. As said already he's still young enough onto his career, even though he's nearly 25. It's unfair to compare some players with what's produced at leinster schools because some players come out of schools practically at pro levels in leinster, and that's just not possible in other provinces, thus some players needed an extra season or two to be comparable



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,679 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Coombes is an interesting one. He was talked up last year as a live option for the 23 in the AI but was unlucky with injury and has been at various times since. I wasn’t particularly impressed with him in first test against Māori in the summer but he was much improved for the second game.

    One concern I’d have with him is his dynamism. He’s a big strong lad with a powerful close in game but he’s more like Rhys Ruddock than Doris/Conan which doesn’t seem to be what Farrell and co are looking for.

    I say that as a big fan of Rhys Ruddock so that’s no slight on Coombes but Ruddock is a player who has been there or thereabouts for 10 years+ but never nailed down a position as he found himself behind more dynamic players and also had unfortunate timing with injury.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    That's not a fair assessment of Deegan imo. He was very much in the mix until he got injured.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    In the mix and neck and neck are not the same thing however. He was behind Conan - I did think that he might overtake him at one point, but then Doris came up and rapidly overtook them both while Conan managed to solidify his game to the point of being the Lions 8.

    Deegan is not and never has been at either of their levels.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think Coombes is more powerful than Ruddock (just look at his try scoring record, especially from 5m) and has a better handling game, too.

    I think it’s things more in the defensive side of his game (like his tackling) that’s seen him dropped.



  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭bingobango12


    ye



  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭bingobango12


    Yeah I agree with what you have said there. Realistically it is Doris’ position now with the Lions starting 8 behind him so will be hard to shift for either Deegan or Coombes but the more competition for places the better



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Doris overtaking him coincided with him getting injured, which gave Doris more game time. Which is different from Doris simply blowing past him, yes?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,239 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    the nicest thing i could say about your first sentence is that its hyperbolic at best.....



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    How can you overtake someone when you're behind them?

    Doris and Deegan absolutely were neck and neck for a season until various injuries at different times meant they weren't competing for the same spot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭All_in_Flynn


    Watched the game again. Level of physicality was ridiculous at times. South Africa were going all out here. They were trying to lay down a marker. They looked a bit shook when they got no change out of a couple of those mauls and scrums. I think the post match whining is telling.

    I'll reiterate that if you can sustain them physically, then they don't have a whole lot else bar a grubber kick. We didn't even play that well. I think we are a better team and if we are on our game we will beat them in the world cup unless something goes drastically wrong on the day. I was even more impressed with Ryan on second viewing. He was very clever all day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    SA will be a much better team at the World Cup. So will NZ, Wales, France, Argentina, England and Australia. We need to keep innovating and improving, not stand still like 4 years ago. And hopefully unearth one or two more players. The SA game and the summer series will mean f*ck all if we embarrass ourselves at the world cup again. Our scrum and lineout both have massive room for improvement IMO. I'd also be concerned about how easily SA shut down our attack. We need to become better at executing against that sort of defence. I think we need to win the Slam next year. We haven't won a 6N yet under Farrell, we have England and France at home, and Scotland and Wales look pretty average right now. It's the next logical progression from what we've achieved this year. Anything less than that, and we'll have gone backwards IMO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I think there is a lot of room for improvement in this team but the SA game was an important bench mark, first time we've seen this team combine real smarts with heavy doses physicality. It's the kind of game we've lost in recent years. For me the two tries were fantastic, a maul try agains that pack is great and then a slick backline move from broken play and turnover. We had less than a minute in their 22 so living off scraps but smart and resilient enough to make it count.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭All_in_Flynn


    Will they be a much better team come the world cup? I'm not so sure. I think you will get more of the same from them. They'll play for penalties at set piece time and if they don't get it they begin to look fairly blunt. I don't think they 'shut down' our attack. A lot of our players are not up to speed this season yet. We didn't play well and still won. I think South Africa will be very worried after that.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I think sa are making the mistake of thinking just because they did it three years they can do it again next year.

    Their squad profile hasn't changed much in the last 3 years and they're style certainly hasn't.

    At this stage they are in danger of going into rwc with a stale squad, stale coaches and stale playing style



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Worth remembering that SA won the last RWC but absolutely weren't the best team in the tournament.

    They have such a massive pool of players that they can always change things up and turn things around but as of now, not too worried about them to be honest



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Would like to see the following half back combinations over the next two weeks:

    Fiji:

    9 JGP (think he’ll play for match fitness)

    10 Carbery

    21 Blade

    22 Crowley


    Australia :

    9 Casey

    10 sexton

    21 JGP

    22 Frawley / Crowley



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    Doris is younger? He obviously came into the squad behind Deegan but he remained there for an incredibly short amount of time and it became clear very quickly he is a significantly better player. Only injuries stopped Doris becoming a mainstay quicker.



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