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BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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    #8732
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,515 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849982#Comment_119849982

    Sounds like a job for DART+. If the frequency at druncondra was 10 minutes you probably wouldn't consider the bus journey



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    #8733
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,515 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849684#Comment_119849684

    This is really positive, if DCC can put in the parts of the core bus corridors that don't need planning permission that's a big help and that's what should have been done at the start in 2018. The mount brown issue is current but they'll need to look at same for the A spine going through Rathmines, a bus gate can be put in without planning. Same on Prussia Street for the B spine, it'll at least clear the worst bottlenecks until the core bus corridors come along



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    #8734
    Qrt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭Qrt


    There was a few protesting the bus gate from Ceannt Fort, sign up etc, but I cannot think of why you'd want less traffic going by your house? Access for locals would always be maintained...nowt queer as folk etc



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    #8735
    brianc89
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119850617#Comment_119850617

    Yeah exactly!

    I was very surprised how easy the N4 was. Although the N4 was late, had to wait 5/6 minutes for the 16, and there were roadworks on Drumcondra Rd, it was super doable to have 2 bus connections plus a Dart.

    N4 is a fantastic route.



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    #8736
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,515 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I've heard great things about the N4. Pity that the emphasis wasn't placed on putting in more orbitals early on in bus connects.



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    #8737
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119850466#Comment_119850466

    We don’t have turn up & go rail services outside of peak hour, apart from DART, and most people know that and would check the timetable to be fair.

    That’s not going to change until DART+ happens. But it is coming.

    We have to be realistic about what you can expect given the resource issues right now - there is still a driver shortage on the railways too.



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    #8738
    brianc89
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119851063#Comment_119851063

    The current resource issues are not related to disappointing service at Drumcondra.

    It was just highly disappointing to decide to leave the car at home, but then realize that, despite living right beside Drumcondra Station, it was quicker to walk to Connolly than waiting for a train to go "one stop".

    The buses are even slower getting to Connolly or Tara. Anyway long story short, I'll keep driving for now 😂🤔



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    #8739
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,955 ✭✭✭Daith


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119850829#Comment_119850829

    Yep it's very handy. Though obviously can be very delayed by traffic on Collins Ave.



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    #8740
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119851413#Comment_119851413

    Of course the resource issues are relevant.

    The shortage of drivers is the reason that there are only three trains an hour between Drumcondra and Connolly off-peak, or hourly on the northern line to Drogheda.

    Quite rightly the investment in frequency outside of DART up till now has focussed on the peak periods.

    At the same time, the investment to deliver the service you seemed to think existed hasn’t happened yet - that’s what the DART+ Programme will deliver with new trains and infrastructure.

    When sufficient bus driver resources are available, the O route will link the NCR at Dorset St with Connolly Station every 8 minutes.

    At the same time some journeys will generally be quicker by car, and I suspect that, in the absence of direct services, Drumcondra to Malahide will be one of them.



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    #8741
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119851431#Comment_119851431

    Consideration should be given to providing a bus Lane on parts and of Collins Ave. particularly Grace Park to Swords Rd.

    The road is quite wide in sections and it could be done with a bit of planning. It would also benefit the 16 for that section (I know it changes under the A spine). Similar consideration should be given to the N2 on Griffith Ave.

    I was out for a run this evening around 8pm and passed an N4 heading West on Collins Ave at Whitehall. Great loadings again. This route has really opened up opportunities to move around the city.



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    #8742
    brianc89
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119851510#Comment_119851510

    There have never been regular services in Drumcondra, and it's nothing to do with recent resource issues.

    I simply hadn't realized how irregular and un-useful off-peak services are in Drumcondra for connecting to Connolly. That's it - I don't know why you're making an issue of my "I'm disappointed" comment.

    My post was about how useful the N4 bus service was, just for the record.



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    #8743
    brianc89
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119851510#Comment_119851510

    Also, there's no reason to assume a car journey will be quicker in the absence of direct Drumcondra - Malahide trains.

    A direct train from Connolly to Malahide takes 16minutes. The train from Drumcondra to Connolly takes 6 minutes. Assuming a short connection, a train could have you there in under 30.

    This is exactly why I'm so disappointed that my journey would have taken almost an hour due to a poor connection.



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    #8744
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119851510#Comment_119851510

    I'm sorry but this is not the reason. Granted there are shortages at the moment, but the Maynooth line should have had higher frequency services for years now and the current recruitment problem is not the reason for that. It's institutional indifference that's the problem.



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    #8745
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119852043#Comment_119852043

    First of all I’m not having a go, but I was just rather surprised that you should have expected a higher frequency, given all the publicity about the benefits of the DART+ investment programme, which has been the subject of much discussion on boards here.

    It is all about the delivering the capacity to increase frequency to Maynooth and Hazelhatch in particular.

    There’s never been more than four trains an hour off-peak through Drumcondra in my lifetime, but DART+ is all about changing that.

    Just to correct your terminology, there is a “regular” train service through Drumcondra to/from Connolly. Off-peak there are three trains an hour, with a fourth every second hour (when the Sligo services call). What there isn’t is “high frequency” off-peak. In other words, a “turn up & go” frequency.

    The vast majority of people using the line are not doing that connection at Connolly which is why I referenced your use of the description of the station as “useless”, because it is anything but.

    Context does matter!!

    But the good news is that the DART + investment in staff, rolling stock and infrastructure will mean converting the rail service into a proper network that does facilitate connections such as the one you outlined. But expecting that right now, is a tall order.



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    #8746
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119852052#Comment_119852052

    Right now it is unlikely that the train will be faster, until you get the DART+ investment in place across the network and much higher frequencies. Hence, expecting quick connections between the lines off-peak isn’t realistic.

    They don’t have the staff or the rolling stock to do it.



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    #8747
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119852057#Comment_119852057

    There’s never been the funding or the available staff to do it.

    There has certainly been a reluctance at government level to invest in rail, and it is only now through the DART + programme that finally we have a plan that will deliver a suburban rail network that facilitates connections around the city.

    There also isn’t a recruitment issue as such. I explained as best I can my understanding of the reasons in this post in the new timetable thread.

    Right now my understanding is that there is still a shortage of drivers across the network, which does impact on what can and cannot operate (that's aside from the rolling stock shortage), and given that it takes over 12 months to pass out a new driver as fully trained, it is taking time to address.

    The driver shortage is a result primarily of the knock-on effects of:

    1) A lengthy dispute between the previous CEO and the unions which resulted in a union ban on training new drivers in cab - this was resolved shortly after the current CEO took over, but it caused a backlog of trainee drivers to be passed out.

    2) Covid restrictions during lockdown meaning that in-cab training was suspended again

    3) Retirements and I believe some of the external recruits leaving when they found the job wasn't for them.

    As a result, the timetable changes have tended to be small increments, as more drivers pass out. There hopefully will be increased numbers passed out in the coming years to facilitate the much needed expansion of services.

    The lack of rolling stock has also impacted on the ability to deliver additional capacity at peak times, but the ongoing delivery of the 41 additional intermediate cars for the ICR fleet will allow the fleet to reform into a combination of 3, 4 and 6-car sets which will allow for some cascading of rolling stock, but they won’t start entering service until mid-2023.

    Expecting major changes quickly is unrealistic given those constraints.




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    #8748
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119849684#Comment_119849684

    The NTA representatives certainly admitted that they got the running times wrong for the three routes, but almost seemed surprised that people didn’t realise that there could be “teething issues”.

    But I didn’t hear them talk about increasing frequency on the 60 or realigning the route - they were VERY vague on that. That would be tantamount to them admitting their network design was wrong, which they have been very reluctant to do.

    They also really didn’t seem to get the need to communicate with passengers better.

    The solution is clearly to have the 60 running every 30 mins off-peak with reliable running times.



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    #8749
    rx8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭rx8


    Apparently 9 new drivers got the licence and all resigned together. No wonder there's a shortage.



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    #8750
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users Posts: 9,706 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119853092#Comment_119853092

    'Apparently'



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    #8751
    A2000
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭A2000


    On our way to Jersey Boys in bord gais and this is current situation. In 2 taxis now. Again

    Screenshot_20221109-183104_Real Time Ireland.jpg




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    #8752
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119854344#Comment_119854344

    There was a major crash in town earlier which has caused serious problems on every bus route due to road closures. For once it’s not just the G Spine!

    I think everyone gets the message as do the NTA by now.

    Hopefully they will sort the running times out in the next week or two - that at least will help restore some semblance of reliability.



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    #8753
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "N4 is a fantastic route."

    The N4 is a massive success, really well done and pretty much proves the whole concept of BusConnects. It proves that there is a lot of demand for orbitals and not just travelling into the city. Just like the 24/7 routes have been a massive success and showed the big demand for night time services.

    And yes, I agree, it is a pity that the focus wasn't on rolling out all the orbital routes first. I think it would have greater impact then the core corridors, at least until the infrastructure part arrives.

    Of course we should also point out the big success of the €2 90 minute ticket, it really makes public transport affordable and makes transfers so easy and usable. Another big win IMO.

    "Similar consideration should be given to the N2 on Griffith Ave."

    While it might look wide, there actually is no space on Griffith Avenue for bus lanes. Unless you are suggesting cutting down trees, in which case prepare for riots from the people of Dublin. Longest double tree lined avenue in Europe, it is a pretty big deal. Perhaps some traffic light priority at junctions would help.

    BTW note the N2 is to be a relatively low frequency orbital, at least compared to the N4.



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    #8754
    ijgoldman
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭ijgoldman


    Around when is the N2 supposed to launch?



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    #8755
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,469 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119854397#Comment_119854397

    I've just read about it on Dublin Live. It's awful stuff to read there. I suspect that there were huge tailbacks of traffic occurring for a number of hours within the City because of this severe collision.

    Do the C buses normally go up Tara St to get onto Burgh Quay. Were those buses rerouted to go past College Green and Westmoreland St this morning?



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    #8756
    A2000
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭A2000


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119854397#Comment_119854397

    This is true but unfortunately is the standard of service citybound at this time everyday due to buses missing departures inbound resulting from earlier out bound delays



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    #8757
    mikeybhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119853092#Comment_119853092

    Do DB not make drivers pay a bond if they leave?



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    #8758
    brianc89
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119852221#Comment_119852221

    Thanks for that. In fairness, my issue with Drumcondra was I wanted to connect to one specific train in Connolly (direct to Maynooth in 16minutes). I could have caught an earlier Dart - however the whole trip would have taken an hour.

    I was determined to not drive and justify my decision by finding a quicker connection, which didn't exist. Roll on Dart+!!!



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    #8759
    brianc89
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    Another observation today in town around 12pm. I got the number 1 bus from Pearse St to Drumcondra Station.

    Pearse Street was the first stop and the bus arrived on time. However, by the time the bus got to OCS it was running eight minutes late.

    It wasn't particularly busy, but every set of lights from Pearse to OCS took ages. OCS was also full of private cars - are they legally allowed there during the day?



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    #8760
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119855785#Comment_119855785

    As per my earlier post there was a serious crash at Beresford Place earlier and the Gardai closed the road for a lengthy period and re-routed traffic via OCS.

    In any case, cars can access OCS from Burgh Quay and Bachelors Walk northbound, and from Cathal Brugha Street and Sackville Place southbound.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


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    #8761
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,805 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Notice on the Dublin bus app......

    Screenshot_2022-11-12-21-50-20-05_10ca05cf247631fc33f270adcf221311.jpg




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