NTA Incompetent?

I mean London is experiencing pretty much all the same issues, in particular the issue with shortage of drivers, it is an industry wide issue:

Lets pretend NTA and GA didn't exist, it was all under DB's control, we would still have the same driver shortage issue regardless as it is an industry wide issue across Europe.

As an end user of bus services, the NTA has been the best thing that has happened to public transport and have greatly improved the overall bus experience IMO

• Intercity coach services serving every city every 30 minutes almost 24 hours a day, with toilets and wifi, a VAST improve in the terrible BE service that preceded them.
• Finally a truly integrated tickets with the 90 minute ticket and incredible value at €2
• Great reductions in child and young adult tickets.
• Increases in frequency across the network, in particular off peak, weekends and sundays
• True 24/7 bus services
• N4 is the best thing since sliced pan (I live near this route).
• Drivers finally using the rear door consistently
• Nice new livery
• Starting to get electric buses.
• Leap Card

We still have a very long way to go, but with the improvements we have seen so far, I finally see the outline and possibility of a quality bus network, one you would expect to find in a European capital city.

Of course there are serious growing pains, trying to rollout such an ambitious project like BusConnects when there is an industry wide driver shortage is going to be very hard, but I still think it is the right thing to do.

Having used the N4, 24/7 routes, etc. I'm absolutely convinced this is the right way to go and needs to be continued (with tweaks of course) and hopefully with more drivers to ease issues.

BTW I don't think the NTA are perfect, far from it, the biggest issue I have is just how ridiculously long it is taking them to roll out these projects.

But prior to the NTA being formed, I saw very little evidence that DB could execute on a project like BusConnects any better or hell even envisage something like BusConnects.

Oh, bus services in Cork city have vastly improved too since the NTA took over. Night and day. The introduction of double decker in Cork city has made such a difference. Greater frequency too, new bus stops and shelter replacing the old rusting junk, etc.

Still more to do, Leap is still a bit of a mess in Cork, etc. But definite movement in the right direction overall.

“So give the NTA teeth. Bring DB under them directly. If they refuse, force them to do it anyway. This infighting should be stamped out completely”

Yes, I find it ironic someone saying that the NTA need to be more like TFL and more aggressive. TFL and London Bus have become today what they are, by the precursor of TFL first taking complete ownership and control of what at the time was operated by public companies, breaking it up into 12 separate operating companies and then privatising them!

The equivalent would be the NTA taking full ownership and control of DB, breaking it up into 5 or 6 companies and then privatising them!

By comparison what the NTA has actually done is incredibly conservative and about as beneficial for DB as possible, while staying within the letter of EU law. DB hasn’t been broken up or privatised, and while GA got 10% of routes, it was basically at no expense of DB, those 10% are basically an expansion, not a loss for DB, DB still has the same number of busses and staff as before to GA entering, in fact I think they have more of both now. And even better, DB basically got to pawn off the worst routes on GA, the local and outer orbital routes, while DB gets to focus busiest and most important core bus routes into the city.

Honestly you couldn’t have asked for a better deal for DB in the face of potential deregulation. The company has gotten off very easy in comparison to London.

Plus, I'm not sure DB would want those routes, they are some of the most difficult to operate routes in the city, lots of outer locals and orbitals.

It was a big win for DB to be able to foist those routes off on GAI, while DB got to focus on the busy core routes into the city. DB really couldn't have asked for a much better setup.

"But the point is BVG is a state owned operator like DB or BE as opposed to a private operator like GAI."

So Berlin has the VBB, which regulates the operations of the state owned company BVG and a bunch of other private operators.

Dublin has the NTA, which regulates the operations of the state owned company CIE and a bunch of private operators.

Looks almost exactly the same to me.

"I've been to a lot of cities in Europe and only in London and Copenhagen I saw private operators like Arriva operating buses."

So you don't have any source. I've travelled all over Europe too and beyond and have seen many examples of this sort of operation.

"Most places have one state owned operator RATP in Paris is another example only one operator of buses and metro in Paris."

Île-de-France Mobilités (IDFM) is the public authority responsible for public transport in Paris. RATP operate various services in Paris under contract with IDFM. While RATP operate the majority of services, there is also SNCF trains and 90 private bus companies that operate under IDFM.

In other words, Dublin, Berlin and Paris are almost exactly the same. A single public authority responsible for public transport in the region, usually over the traditional large public owned operator and a bunch of newer private operators.

This is pretty much the standard model for most European cities and in general it it is driven by EU competition rules which require the opening up of markets, along with other reasons.

I'm sorry, but that is nonsense, how exactly are they incompetent?

Public transport in Ireland has radically improved since the NTA took over:

• Actual proper 24/7 bus services
• Increased off peak and weekend frequency
• Excellent orbital routes like the N4
• Dual door buses across the fleet and actually used now
• Finally proper integrated ticketing with the 90 minute fare
• Affordable tickets like the €2 90 minute, greatly reduced young peoples fares, etc.
• Switching Cork City to double decker buses and greatly increasing frequency, VAST improvement in buses in Cork.
• New updated bus poles and shelter (bigger deal in Cork).
• Introduction of the non stop intercity coach services was a complete game changer for intercity travel.
• Introduction of local link services.

How exactly are they "shirking responsibility"?

DB and GAI are the ones who are failing to deliver the services that they are contracted to deliver to the NTA. It is DB/GAI who are the ones who can't hire and retain enough bus drivers to operate the services they signed a contract to operate. NTA don't hire or decide the wages of drivers, it is DB/GAI who do that.

The NTA have meet their responsibility by fining DB/GAI for not delivering the services they are contracted to do.

I find it ridiculous, that some of you are blaming the NTA, when it is DB/GAI who are failing in hiring and retaining drivers. That is literally the job of DB/GAI, to hire, train and keep drivers and they seem to be failing miserably at it!

Having said all of that, I don't really blame DB/GAI too much for this, as it is an industry wide issue that is impacting almost all operators. But it is complete rubbish to lay the blame on the NTA, when the issues here is with DB/GAI. Of course NTA/DB/GAI all need to work together to help resolve it.

"DB had dual door buses prior to the NTA AVs didn't get centre doors to make way for a wheelchair space as these were the first lowfloor buses DB got."

DB made the frankly criminal decision to get rid of dual door buses after they got rid of the conductor.

It was DB **** decision when they got rid of conductors, to move to the model of single door buses, with the drivers selling tickets, which lead to terrible dwell times. This is a great example of how incompetent DB management were.

It was like something straight out of the 1940's. When they got rid of the conductors, Luas style ticketing was common on buses through out Europe, multiple doors, no driver interaction, validate ticket on board. DB management choose to go with by far the worst ticketing and operation model possible.

It took the NTA to start buying buses, to see the re-introduction of dual door buses.

Down in Cork it was BE who stupidly got rid of Double decker buses, replacing them with single deckers, another decision that has since been corrected and reversed by the NTA.

"DB had a 90 minute fare pre NTA."

It only worked on DB and you had to pre buy it. It wasn't an integrated ticket like the new 90 minute ticket that works across DB/GAI/Luas/Dart and which you can automatically get on a Luas card without pre buying or planning ahead. Massive difference.

"€2 fare was introduced by the government to help with cost of living."

Err, yes, the NTA is part of the government! It was done with negotiations between the NTA, Department of Transport and Department of Finance.

Also you seem to be conveniently ignoring all the great work that the NTA has been doing with the young persons ticket, etc.

To be clear, the NTA created the integrated 90 minute ticket, Young Adult Leap Card fare, and have been working towards removing the ridiculous, complicated, frankly stupid, stage fare system that DB left them with.

"Motorway network wasn't build by NTA Aircoach had Dublin-Cork and Citylink had Dublin-Galway pre NTA."

Citylink did exist pre NTA, but the Aircoach service pre-NTA was a stopping service that mostly didn't use the Motorway. It was under the NTA that they started a new non-stop direct service that used the Motorway, which ran in parallel with the old stopping service. After about a year, Aircoach discontinued the stopping service.

While services to Galway did exist, it was under the NTA's new licensing regime that allowed for two direct non stop services per route, which opened it up to all the other cities including Cork.

I know this very well, as it is the entire reason why I joined this forum. I was a Corkonian living in Dublin, who innocently came to C&T forum to ask why the BE service to Cork was so bad, why did it take 5 hours, didn't use the motorway and no service after 6pm?

Well I had CIE "supporters" jump all over me claiming there was no demand for non stop services, no demand for a service more frequent, no demand for toilets or wifi on board, no demand for services after 6pm!

I found that all extremely hard to believe and then of course along came Aircoach and GoBE with their non stop services, operating every 30 minutes, almost 24 hours, toilets/wifi on board and these services proving incredibly successful.

I'm absolutely convinced that if it wasn't for the NTA licensing changes and the new commercial operator routes, we would be still stuck with a terrible BE intercity service.

So please, stop trying to convince us things would be better under CIE, I'm more then old enough to remember what CIE services in Cork and Dublin were like pre-NTA and frankly it was a complete **** show. They were like something out of the 1940's

To be clear, this is no attack on individual staff or drivers, who overall I've always found lovely. I've fond memories of getting the bus home from school as a kid and the bus driver having a nice chat and giving us rolls of unprinted tickets to take home and play with!

No I'm talking about the overall operation and management of the services. Routes, schedules, frequency, capacity, ticketing, etc.

We had CIE running the show for decades and it was frankly TERRIBLE. The NTA are far from perfect and I have many complaints that I've voiced myself about them, but frankly public transport has VASTLY improved here since the NTA was formed and I certainly wouldn't want to go back to the bad old days of it all being run by CIE. The entire thought just makes me shudder.