The great big bus driver shortage. Why in the name of god would you drive a bus these days anyway...

Qrt · 12-11-2022 11:46am

FWIW it was going around twitter that that bus driver was in their probation and has been sacked. harsh, but I guess they can’t take the risk

mikeybhoy · 12-11-2022 12:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864687#Comment_119864687

Don't forget dealing chancers like this looking for compensation. Happened in London but this goes on in Dublin too. Note how rude control are to the driver.

https://youtu.be/LbHSPdos3KM

AndrewJRenko · 12-11-2022 1:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864546#Comment_119864546

The bus driver had passed a petrol station with toilets about 100m before this video. He passed the Yellow House pub and Rathfarnham Castle, both with toilets, in the five minutes beforehand.

Toileting is not a good reason for dangerous driving. If I’m going somewhere with limited access to toilets, like an outdoor festival or a long drive, I adjust my diet, avoiding fatty foods that trigger diarrhoea, or take Imodium or both.

Ive every sympathy for drivers about access to toilets and break facilities, but it’s not an excuse for this kind of driving.

...Ghost... · 12-11-2022 5:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864118#Comment_119864118

You'd want to be a right mug to be bounced around for 10-15 years before being marked in. I don't believe that statement. My friend was marked in before he had spent 5 years at DB.

Regardung teachers; (I cant believe I need to point out the obvious stuff) most start their careers as substitutes with a few hours a week. They might have 1 class on a Monday and nothing else so they are paid for an hour. Worse, they might have a class in the morning and another in the afternoon, so they spend a whole day on site for for less than 2 hours paid and they have to suck it up. They graduate to part time contracts eventually, but usually have a full week on site because of the rota. Then they get full time contracts after an undetermined number of years. After jumping tnose hoops, they still earn less than a bus driver until they earn a few i crements. They work unpaid hours for parent teacher meetings, staff meetings, croke Park and Haddington Road hours. This often means they are working a Saturday without pay. Their pay was savaged during the recession on top of all that. Their holidays are always when it's most expensive to travel abroad and they can't take any holidays of their own choosing.

They do have predictable hours though, until you start to add the work they bring home with them.....unpaid. Teachers doing get overtime. Their salary is fixed with the exception of some who invigilate at the mocks, jnr and leaving cert exams. They have to give up their own time during the year for CPD which is usually about a week, so etimes more depending on their responsibilities.

DB drivers aren't alone when it comes to finding it hard to socialise due to the way the roster works. I don't think anyone joins up expecting M-F, 9-5 though.

Do you think DB drivers should not have the drivers checked for alcohol and drugs? Seems they don't do enough of it. https://www.independent.ie/regionals/herald/news/courts/dublin-bus-driver-crashed-into-chief-inspectors-car-while-over-seven-times-drink-drive-limit-37767863.html

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864152#Comment_119864152

I disagree. You might just have missed the context in which I posted the comment you replied to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864464#Comment_119864464

You're making it out that DB drivers are some special breed of skilled workers who have been given the raw deal of the century....like there was some conspiracy to rig the voting system and shaft the drivers into something none of them voted for. Sorry to break it to you, but under the circumstances, the drivers got a pretty good deal overall. Jobs were kept. Wages were protected and the company stopped losing bus loads if cash every day. DB might seem like an unsinkable company, but it's really only bought itself more time. It's still badly run (as you've already alluded) and won't last long in its current format.

If the taxpayer is subsidising the bus service, its not private. If done properly, a privatised service would be far more efficient than the mess we have now

I haven't attacked drivers at any time, you've just imagined that. I have pointed out its a well paid profession under DB for the skill level involved relative to other professions. You took offence to that, yet still haven't said what skill level you think bus drivers are and why. It's really not a difficult question.

Oh and I've never had any fantasy about being a busxdriver, train driver, taxi driver or anything of the sort. I like driving, but not as a profession.

...Ghost... · 12-11-2022 5:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864687#Comment_119864687

You should see stuff the newsagent staff in the cc and beyond have to deal with daily. Doesn't mean they get more than minimum wage. Plenty of jobs carry the potential for having to put up with scumbags, junkies and criminals. I've worked in a job where I had to physically manage such low lifes and while it wasn't a nice job and carried risk, it was low-skilled and low paid. I wasn't paid extra or given thanks for the fact that I was putting up with abuse and a real risk of injury or death every day I was at work. I also didn't expect thanks or extra pay, because I knew that was the job I signed up for and showed up to. When I wanted better pay and conditions, I chose differently, trained and got myself educated.

hairymaryberry · 13-11-2022 11:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864990#Comment_119864990

How would river know petrol station had toilet? many dont

early morning pubs still closed so they are a non runner

you want drivers to take drugs to avoid going to toilet? i dont know about you and your guts but no one plans to get diarrhea, its something that kicks off all of a sudden.

If the poster above you is correct it was a year 1 driver in probation and they got fired, happy now?

JayRoc · 13-11-2022 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864695#Comment_119864695

I'm genuinely not the sort to be calling for people's heads.

But the above decision is not remotely "harsh", that lad should have his licence taken for life, never mind losing his job. I still can't believe that video is real.

What is legitimately unnerving is how many people who presumably drive are defending it. I mean look at the speed of it...of a double decker bus...along a FOOTPATH.

thinkabouit · 13-11-2022 11:41am

not for love for money would I drive for Dublin bus dealing with the likes of that scum in those video’s

If the terms and conditions are that bad then leave and find something handier

hairymaryberry · 13-11-2022 11:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119865886#Comment_119865886

"You'd want to be a right mug to be bounced around for 10-15 years before being marked in. I don't believe that statement. My friend was marked in before he had spent 5 years at DB."

This just confirmed you are clueless, and are your imaginary "friends" in the room with you now?

teachers

i have a teacher in the family, know a driver who's wife is a teacher and his two daughters, we know very well how good they have it

Holidays for teachers what are they 3 months a year, boo hoo can only take then when the schools are off, compared to DB where its like pulling teeth trying to get a day off outside of your assigned time 3 week block from May 1 to September 30, but it gets better and now due to the super deal we "Voted YES" we have a enforce winter week, sometime between January-March and October-November. Wonderful time to take a week of work , notice December is not included.

Taxpayer and private bus service

Yet again you confirm you are clueless, it wont matter who runs the service the government will be paying for it with tax money, if magically DB disappeared tomorrow the new private operator will be paid by the government with tax money to run the service, only they will be skimming a profit off the top. probably by paying less wages which will lead to even bigger shortage of drivers and a even worse bus service, see GAI for proof.

Ignorance is a choice, all the info about DB & GAI and bus service in Dublin is there for you to read up on, much good info posted here in this forum if you choose to seek it out, of course plenty of drivel from yourself and a few others, but its better to light a candle than curse the darkness, hopefully you will become better informed in the coming months before the disaster that will be Bus Connects 2023, and you and others will know the real reasons for the mess we will find ourselves in.

I think its the Bus connects S route, Sandymount to Heuston station, Check it out, whoever signed off on this should be fired, check it out and the issues will jump of the screen at you, a disaster of a route it will be, anyone that has any knowledge of Dublin traffic can see that, but not the NTA.

hairymaryberry · 13-11-2022 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119866056#Comment_119866056

There it is , you left the job. Thank you, you know the score but just act ignorant.

You and others are complaining about the DB & GAI bus service

Its bad as drivers are leaving and no new drivers are coming in

See the problem?

How to improve bus service? Have better pay and conditions make the job attractive so drivers don't leave and people want to do the job, simple.

JayRoc · 13-11-2022 12:01pm

I would be neither a Dublin Bus driver, nor a teacher. And as far as I'm concerned you couldn't pay either of them enough.

devnull · 13-11-2022 12:27pm

All, a reminder to be civil to each other.

Moderator

mikeybhoy · 13-11-2022 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868305#Comment_119868305

How do you it was a lad? Could be a female? May not even be a driver could be a mechanic driving the bus hell bus could even be stolen for you and I know.

JayRoc · 13-11-2022 12:54pm

I'm replying to the post that said the bus driver on probation had lost their job.

Female mechanics/bus thieves are not mentioned, sadly.

...Ghost... · 13-11-2022 2:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868365#Comment_119868365

I can see you're getting a bit hot under the collar. You seem to be struggling with the context of the comparisons which were made not only by me, but ironically, by you when you spoke about security guards and cleaners and looked down your nose at them. I have repeatedly said being a bus driver is a low skilled job (which was never an attack, or insult...just a fact) and that DB bus drivers are very well compensated for driving a bus as they are paid better than most college graduates and newly graduated trades people, both of whom have spent 4+ years training on low, or no pay at all. Some of which spend years trying to get a full time contract. If you don't understand the basic context here, then I may as well be talking to a donkey, as my time would be equally wasted.

I will make one final attempt here: Most jobs/professions/careers have undesirable aspects to them. Industry changes and sometimes the staff benefit, but sometimes they don't when belts need to be tightened, as was the case with DB. Instead of a pay cut, DB drivers had to accept greater efficiencies which they voted YES to, whether they want to admit it or not. You are just imagining that no driver voted yes....but if this were true, the threats of no service and strikes would have been back on. As there were no such threats/strikes after the deal, we can all agree that your imaginings are just that....fantasy.

I don't much care for what the NTA and bus-connects are doing. It would only annoy me to pay attention to it, because they are no doubt ham-fisting every aspect of their grand plans. This however does not change the primary points I made regarding DB drivers and their compensation being rather generous.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868376#Comment_119868376

Yes, I left the job because I wanted more than what was on offer. It was not something I received extensive training for and living on minimum wage is just not feasible. I'd have got more had I been on the dole, but in principle, I like to earn my own crust. If DB bus drivers have it as bad as you seem to claim, they too have the option to go do something else. I don't see them walking out in their droves. The turnover now is no different than most industries. People are switching jobs everywhere, especially those who can switch to a WFH role.

Maybe DB bus have been finding it harder to attract drivers because of their focus on hiring female drivers when they should just focus on hiring safe, qualified drivers?

Throwing more money at DB drivers is just a terrible idea. CIE are still losing money and you want them to pay higher staff wages....And i'm the clueless one? If you are so unhappy with DB pay and conditions, you still have a vote. Use your feet.

AndrewJRenko · 13-11-2022 5:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868286#Comment_119868286

The Yellow House is open for coffees from 8am. Don't think I've ever come across a petrol station that didn't have a toilet, albeit a fairly manky one.

My bowels are fairly predictable, as are most people's. Diarrhoea tends to have a fairly obvious cause in diet or other practice. It is very rarely a total surprise. I 'don't want' people to use drugs. I'm suggesting that over-the-counter medication is one fairly obvious solution to a medical issue.

However, these are just side issues. Regardless of the toileting situation, that kind of driving is totally irresponsible. I'm assuming that DB has some procedure for medical emergency for drivers. I'm also assuming that the emergency procedure does not involve driving on the footpath like a maniac. There is no excuse for this kind of driving.

And no, I'm not happy that someone got fired. I'm not happy about anything to do with this situation. It does seem like a reasonable response to this kind of driving. There's no excuse for this kind of driving.

mikeybhoy · 13-11-2022 5:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869446#Comment_119869446

A lot of garages in Dublin don't have toilets more something down the country I always thought. I'd imagine if it wasn't someone on probation it would've been a lot harder to fire them. There are drivers who've literally killed people and are still working.

AndrewJRenko · 13-11-2022 7:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869543#Comment_119869543

This guy who killed a cyclist lost his unfair dismissal case

https://www.ibec.ie/employer-hub/hr-management-guide/dismissal/case-law/bus-driver-whose-contract-was-frustrated-due-to-driving-ban-not-unfairly-dismissed

Bass Reeves · 13-11-2022 11:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868365#Comment_119868365

There is very few no s you could compare with teachers conditions. Nearly all companies both private and public have rules regarding the timing of holidays. DB is running a service it must provide that service which still giving workers there holiday entitlement.

Most company roster there holidays in one form or another. Traditionally a lot of sectors closed down for 2-3 weeks end of July start of August.

Any job that has a shift pattern has a problem with a two week summer pattern. DB drivers more so. Workers on such a shift will maybe finish late on a Saturday or Sunday and need to be back at work.the Monday/ Tuesday two weeks. This often limits the ability for to take a two week holiday abroad so a fixed three week break has it options.

Similar with the winters real. Most jobs will insist on a certain amount of holidays be taken during the winter. Most companies in a similar business environment might actually insist on splitting the holidays 50/50 between Summer and winter period.

The reason December is excluded is probably by the demand for single days leave( I presume there is a certain discretionary allowance) and the fact that demand for bus services is probably higher due to social demand around the Christmas period.

Other workers also have limits on there ability to take holidays or be off weekends or long weekends. People who working the Tourism sector will seldom/ never get holidays during late May to early September. They will seldom even get single annual leave days. People in bars and restaurants will seldom get a weekend off as that is when there work happens. The bar staff have often to deal with obnoxious or abusive people as well.

hairymaryberry · 14-11-2022 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868775#Comment_119868775

I never mentioned security guards, you projecting much? Is that what you work as?

Its clear you are unhappy with your job and want bus drivers to be unhappy as well, jealousy is a terrible self inflicted malady, but you are the only one who can cure it.

The whole discussion is why DB & GAI cant keep or get drivers, you in a perverse way seem to want to leave pay and conditions as is, so you don't want an improvement in bus service?

You have a bit of a misogynistic dig at female drivers as well, classy!

It was once a good job, pay and conditions where decent, but they are been eroded year after year, and the service is suffering as the many posts around her cant attest too.

The Topic of discussion was why would anyone want to be a bus driver?

Its clear its has reached a tipping point of no longer being a job that is attractive to present or prospective drivers, hence the staffing problems in DB & GAI, all it would take to stop the rot would be improved pay and conditions, with the idea of drivers getting paid more repulsive to you and others here, we will forget about a pay increase, and concentrate on conditions.

Insufficient running time is chronic, a simple adjustment to running time would end many, many problems.

Proper rosters and duties , not the mess we have at the moment and only going to get worse with the vote "yes" in pay deal.😉

Work life balance is well out of whack, shocking in many cases.

Just the three identified here with improvements would make a huge difference, we wont even get to dealing with the undesirables on a daily basis, transport police would be a lovely bonus, but cant see that happing as they would have to admit there is a problem first and this would prove the drivers many concerns are justified.

Drivers are voting with there feet and leaving, just wait and see next year when the midnight departures ,4am starts and compulsory night shifts kick in, retaining and attracting drivers will become even worse.

hairymaryberry · 14-11-2022 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870955#Comment_119870955

We accept the holiday dates we are given, we understand the reason, but try get a day off out side these times, wedding/funeral you are out of luck, "we are short staffed so cant give you the day off". So what do? Well if you have to go sick and a trip to the doctor to get a cert, might as well make it 3 days, or even better a week off work.

As for bar staff dealing with obnoxious or abusive people as well, what happens to these undesirables? They get barred from the establishment, bus drivers got to deal with the scum day in day out.

14-11-2022 1:22pm

Would the crowd of you crying about how bus drivers can use any amount of toilets as it suits them shut up.

You don’t have a clue what you’re on about, clearly. Toilets are not available nearly as much as you think they are (in fact it’s a very common problem in towns and cities in Ireland, a lack of public toilets). But you’re deluding yourself if you think a driver can either go off route to use a toilet or indeed use one that would mean the bus is left unattended for ages.

Example:

driver going from point A to point B, if a toilet is needed but it’s off course at point D, they can’t use it.

equally if a drivers route takes them by St. Stephens green shopping centre, it’s not feasible to expect them to park the bus, go to the centre, find a toilet & use it.

14-11-2022 1:27pm

I swear to god I don’t know how or why people who don’t do a certain job seem to think they have all the answers.

“Uh obviously you’d go to a circle K to pish..”

“this isn’t complicated..”

ok genius you single handily solved the issue for every bus driver in Ireland, how could we have done it without you!!

When you’re all done telling bus drivers how much of a better job you’d do at it, can you help me out, cos I find myself occasionally needing to go in the middle of dinner service, but my head chef told me I’m not allowed use the toilet during. Any ideas?

(and I’ll leave it here, but it just does my head in when people try and behave like they’re an authority when they haven’t a clue)

hairymaryberry · 14-11-2022 3:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872558#Comment_119872558

It never ceases to amaze how little the public know about bus driving, and around here where enthusiasts lurk the lack of knowledge borders on wilful ignorance, bus drivers are not members of a secret society like the Freemasons, all you have of to do is ask a question and you will get an answer, obviously a question asked in a civil manner will get a honest answer, come aggressively and you well get told to F off or even better laughed at.

Years ago I would have told them to F off, but a smile and a laugh gets under the skin of the aggressive asshole, annoying them even more.

Drivers are stopped daily in the streets going to and from work and asked questions, and drivers have no issue answering as long as you are not aggressive.

Some think driver can just use any toilet, fact is some drivers have been refused with the customers only line. As pointed out some areas you can’t simply abandon the bus and go seek out a toilet. The bus unattended will attract the wrong sort of attention.

It would appear most posters here have a toilet at work with easy access, and don’t have a clue about the realities of driving a bus.

14-11-2022 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119873007#Comment_119873007

I think it goes beyond not understanding how the industry works and is in fact indicative of a total lack of understanding to anything outside their own daily life.

the same ones asserting a bus driver can just park up wherever and run for a slash are I’m sure the same crowd who’d have puppies if it inconvenienced them even a tiny bit.

...Ghost... · 14-11-2022 9:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872428#Comment_119872428

Indeed it was Mikey who first mentioned security guards and cleaners. My mistake. My previous comment....the second last one you replied to; where I said I wanted better, so I left, trained and got educated. What made you think I ended up moving to a Security Guard job? 😂 If anything, I was moving from one.

You have to be mixing my posts up with someone else. I haven't brought my own job into the discussion. I spoke in context about a previous job without disclosing what that was, but did not discuss what I trained in, or what I do now, as it is irrelevant to the thread. I am however very happy with my current career. It's interesting, exciting, pays well and forwards me travel opportunities which is a great perk. Enough about that though.

I don't wish unhappiness on anyone lad, least not those I have never met. I think you're the one projecting here. I have repeatedly said that the DB drivers are well compensated for their work and at their skill level. If you have managed to pull from that assertion that I want DB drivers to be unhappy, then you have bigger problems to contend with. There is nothing "perverse" about wanting, or saying that DB drivers should not be getting a pay hike. A change in conditions I haven't argued against, but don't let that get in the way of your crusade 😉.

You think it misogynistic to point out that specifically advertising to women to drive buses is a poor allocation of advertising revenue when DB is short of drivers? OK, that's where your mind is at.

Topics evolve as the post number stacks. It's not rocket science to see that my answer to the question posted in the OP (which was mostly a rant) is that people would want to be a bus driver (at DB) because they are well paid for the job. The job is secure. The pension and benefits are not to be sniffed at. It requires very little training etc etc etc.

Lets not talk staffing shortages again. It's boring. Nearly every company currently has shortages. DB/GAI are no different. If you want a change to conditions, push for it. As you say, nobody voted YES for the last deal, so there should be no problem drumming up support.

I would love to see transport police because there is too much scum travelling on our public transport causing trouble for everyone. It's not like drivers take the job without knowing this will be a factor though. It's just something that needs to be constantly highlighted with the intention to make improvements to the public transport service.

I don't think your prediction about drivers leaving in higher numbers will come true. There will be some ranting of course, but i'm sure there are some benefits to the variations in starting/finish times.

AndrewJRenko · 15-11-2022 2:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872528#Comment_119872528

Just to be clear, difficulties with access to toilets is not good excuse for driving a bus on the footpath like a maniac.

mikeybhoy · 15-11-2022 3:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119877280#Comment_119877280

What's that video got to do with the shortage of bus drivers anyway?

AndrewJRenko · 15-11-2022 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119877438#Comment_119877438

We’re short one more driver since DB investigated the video, allegedly.

Burt Renaults · 15-11-2022 5:17pm

You think it misogynistic to point out that specifically advertising to women to drive buses is a poor allocation of advertising revenue when DB is short of drivers? OK, that's where your mind is at.

If not misogynistic, it is - at the very least - extremely misguided. Very few women choose to become bus drivers, despite the evidence that women are no less suited to the job than men. Attempting to redress that imbalance can only be a good thing, as far as attracting new drivers is concerned. Although I'd argue that they also need to find ways of attracting younger drivers, regardless of gender. The pay scale and long-term prospects might not be great if you're juggling a mortgage, childcare, etc, but for someone in their early 20s, bus driving pays a far better starting salary than the majority of jobs.

The great big bus driver shortage. Why in the name of god would you drive a bus these days anyway...

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