Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

Options
12526283031143

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    I was replying to this:

    That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be protected now but perhaps the cure is in changing the mind not the body.

    Which, to me, implies that the poster's thinking was the same.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Hodger


    Its Interesting to note Paul Murphy has voted against this; to quote and highlight some of his recent contribution fast forward to 6.30

    Facebook

    " It could also be potentially be used to level bogus charges of anti antisemitism and anti sematic hate speech against pro palestinian activists "

    In other words Paul recognizes hate speech laws can be applied against criticism of Israel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Can't stand the fella but he can even see where it's headed. He obviously see's if Right wing get in the same will happen. We have laws no need for more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,850 ✭✭✭growleaves


    After the unfair character assassination of Jeremy Corbyn, Murphy is right to be worried.



  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Hodger


    The workers party are also of the same view as Murphy on this.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Cant stand them either but they see how this can be abused. Enemy of my enemy ofc. I'm am going to give the hard left some credit on this one. Hate to admit that but still.



  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Hodger


    There was a recent article in the times

    " Self-ID activists ‘will abuse hate speech law "

    Murphy and the workers party can see how it will be abused to stifle one viewpoint and women,s groups can see how it will be abused to stifle another viewpoint.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    That's good they are realising what will happen. As I said would never ever vote for them or share any view apart from this. See this is the great thing about being in the centre. I can support a left wing group on an issue. As long as they just keep the talk to the Israeli government I have no issue at all. Classic case of I don't agree but you should be able to have issues with them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Hodger


    For anyone who thinks this won,t be abused.




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    ha voluntary. What if I don't come. Well we will get your local police to arrest you. Is that not the opposite of voluntary.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 11,772 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    That video clip on its own doesn't actually show an abuse of hate speech legislation. It shows the cops weakly following up an allegation. We don't know if there's any merit to the allegation. If we heard what she is accused of saying, then we might be able to form some sort of judgement but without that, that video clip shows nothing.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm against this legislation as it does have the potential for widescale abuse but that's not a great example of abuse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭drivingmissdaisy


    The usual woke bollocks, it will cause more problems , everything woke touches turns to ****.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭lmao10


    I only ever see weird people using the word "woke".

    That Posie Parker bird is also a weapon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    "Anyone peddling hate, or racism, knows that it's not acceptable and are taken to task, and that's why we are bringing forward our hate legislation"


    The above says so much given how abused and nebulous these terms have become. While he's just one man, it's pretty clear what this legislation is intended for from a political perspective at least. The only thing that might save us from what's to come is some reasonable judges, but I'll not be banking on that.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    So hate speech is now not agreeing with Government policy. I have never seen this man before. The fact that he's on the panel says they're desperate. The fact he was able the openly state that on tele unchallenged was f*cking infuriating. With Gardaí monitoring social media activity around immigration protests now. It's a police state for dissenting views or opinions.

    There has been a concerted effort by the government and their 0%- VAT media to distract the public from their incompetence by demonizing people by applying derogatory labels. It's been relentless. Openly calling them far right. The community reps attended meetings with TDs, not the kind of people you can sit and speak with, surely? The media have been intentionally conflating Ukrainian refugees and busloads of young male asylum seekers, heavily insinuating that the people in east wall have not welcomed nor welcome Ukrainian refugees. It's so blatantly deliberate and disgusting. Minister for Finance Paschal Donohoe is the main culprit, stating he was “concerned” by the language used by protesters. Was it that their use of language wasn't government-approved?

    False flags being placed for example by 'radio & print journalist', Alison O’Reilly who said the asylum seekers were given an 8 pm curfew because of threats by "far-right groups" asserting that the curfew is in place to protect the migrants from the locals. When she was called out ‘Given a curfew’ now became the AS decided on a curfew themselves. She went on to report further that 12 security men were hired to work at the center as far-right groups threatened to drive a car through the building, usually centers have 4. Commissioner Drew Harris stated that there was no particular concern that violence is being planned..must have been some threat to bring in an additional eight men. O’Reilly’s posts got likes and were spread far a wide. It was lapped up by simpletons who no doubt spread it further.

    The very people who are intentionally calling the asylum seekers in east wall refugees, are socially engineering and misleading the public in order too malign them as racist xenophobes, are the exact very people pushing the hate speech/crime laws, making objective reality illegal.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Precisely.

    Hate speech doesn't exist. Offensive speech does, which is what this legislation actually covers - and what's offensive is subjectively interpreted. And for that very reason, offensive speech should not be criminalised.

    Incitement to violence and harassment are already crimes - and note that neither of these rely on subjective feelings.

    This legislation is nothing more than corruption of the criminal justice system in favour of one side of the political spectrum.

    Police resources now diverted down the alley of non-crimes.

    Unbelievable.

    We need police on the street and dealing with real crimes in the real world, and those finite resources should not now be stretched to cover people whose feelings are hurt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    On the 16th of this month TD's were asked to vote on whether Hate Speech/Crime Bill should be read a second time. noting that if TD's voted No, this would mean the Bill would be defeated. This vote is important because it indicates who & how many TDs will vote to criminalize speech.

    While this is just Stage 2 it will have to be voted again at stage 5 but this vote gives us an indication of how the vote at stage 5 will likely go. Only 13 voted no. That's pathetic! Not counting myself, I know four of the lads have contacted their local TD's to object, same as myself, family, and one or two neighbors I mentioned it to and emailed a rough template I used. My brother was against it and emailed his. The constituents all voted yes! Not one. no! When this was announced, many of us were skeptical that this might be what they were planning, which it turns out now, to be correct. It's being inserted into the constitution thanks to the removal of blasphemy by referendum 2018. If this went to a referendum it would be rejected. They intend to pass this law regardless of the views of the people they are meant to be representing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,764 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    What exactly is being 'inserted into the Constitution'?



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Nonsense. Its not being inserted into the constitution.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Any input on the TD saying they would use hate speech laws that people have been saying will happen ?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl




  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    I will ask again. What is ones opinion on a government minister threatening citizens with hate speech legislation. A law that is not even law yet That is very sinister. We have had people say this is exactly what will happen. And it has. Those of us with sense saw what was coming hate speech will include government policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Pleased to see my TD ( who I vote for) isn’t with the sheep



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    I will take that as tacit support of a minister threatening citizens with a law that is not even a law yet.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The question asked was a valid one, and you are being deliberately disingenuous by pretending not to understand it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Advertisement
Advertisement