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Is crypto era over?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 986 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    At the very crudest of beginnings could we not start with a public blockchain and proceed from there?

    In the case of a mortgage you have a smart contract.

    Like I say this is way off being perfected, but we are closer than a lot of people think. I see the similarities between this and the adoption of the Internet, and what really made the Internet usable is Protocols and Standardization.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    With deposits, I guess I was more thinking of the likes of the 8bn lost in FTX. If you exist outside of the centralised system, then you don't get the benefits of that. If you are lending crypto to earn interest, there is a similar situation. What if the person doesn't want to give the money back? Do you even know who they are?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,738 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    There has to be regulation in the long term or it will die. Simple as that.

    In any othere area some of the actions taken by certain crypto backers would be straight up fraud.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If blockchain is to ever replace FIAT money, it would need to be regulated and recognised as legal tender.

    Otherwise you could go into a shop and be refused service because the coin in your crypto wallet isn't accepted by the retailer.

    Nobody wants to be dealing with that

    And if the crypto coin became ubiquitous and so was accepted everywhere, without regulation, you're putting basically all of the liquid wealth in the entire country into the control of a private group and private exchanges that, as we've seen over and over and over and over again, will steal all your money

    Plus, all the middlemen, creating apps and services so that the ordinary pensioner on the street can access their wallets opens up risks of scammers and malware and ransomware taking people's life savings....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,363 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Why do we need a block chain? What problem is there with the current system and what does the crypto system do to fix it? I'm not against the concept of a block chain, but just the idea that these currencies are the future and deserve such high prices.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 986 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    One of the problems solved by crypto is that of double spending, if we have a virtual currency then this prevents you and I trying to spend the same coin, therefore uniqueness and validation are part of it. Uniqueness can be assigned to people too (no ned for blue ticks Elon).

    The question of lending money and not getting it back exists in traditional finance too, and same as there, if funds are not identified or held then there is no guarantee that you will get it back, but the borrower is easily identified.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,738 ✭✭✭✭kippy




  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭AnF Chuckie egg


    The double spend problem is only solved when the Hashing power is decentralised and diverse. As we have seen with many of the Alts double spending attacks occur once an attacker gets enough of the hashing power or a mining group align there objectives (no law against this)

    So far Bitcoin is safe (it dame well should be considering it uses more electricity than Japan and South Korea combined!!!)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 986 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    If we want to do banking without banks, then blockchain is one alternative. The current system is far from perfect, and it works until it doesn't



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 986 ✭✭✭erlichbachman




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,738 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    You said crypto solves a problem of uniqueness. This isn't a problem with FIAT that crypto solves though is it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 986 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    Yes, where taking control is not possible of course.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 986 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    That was in response to an earlier question regarding decentralised financial transactions when lending money to another individual - "Do you even know who they are?"

    I didn't say it was a problem that FIAT has, only that its not a problem for decentralised finance.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    You are one of those who will most likely never get past the emotional side… I don’t give a toss for any particular institution or financial product beyond whether or not I can make money out of the situation. The only to do that is to check your emotions at the door and if you can’t do that then you are likely to learn some very expensive lessons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 986 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    Dunno Jim pal, seems your response is more emotionally charged than mine, I’ve even been accused of being dead inside by some friends!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭Shapey Fiend


    The problem crypto solves as I see it is more transparency/immutability on a ledger. Companies at present do business and they've got accountants on both sides with different balance sheets and interpretations. There's a lot of money flying around in the system that isn't taxed. That's right from the people at the top of companies down to the person on the till who's trying to find a way to pocket money by voiding transactions or whatever the current flavour of the month fraud is.

    The CEX's seem to be ran by cowboys at the moment but once regulated entities backed by governments enter the fray you could expect less fuckery. You'd always have the option of self custody (for some portion) of your money as well. Again governments could probably sieze funds that get hacked or stolen if they had some sort of ownership of the blockchain.

    BTC will never be a good medium for payments it's for libertarian bunker residing hodlers. Ethereum for all its incredibly slow development seems to be making decent progress towards being sort of affordable for smaller transactions but I think Ethereum is more concerned with being a open ended platform for software experimentation rather than payments. Nobody wants to pay for stuff in volatile tokens anyway it'll be some sort of government backed stablecoin that becomes the standard for that. It just depends on whether the US Government decide the tech is good enough in 10 years, or at all, before they start dipping their toes in. It definitely feels quite a long way off being ready at the moment. Till then we'll probably see some weird and wonderful applications built, but mostly ponzis, cos ponzis are kind of fun.

    Much like tech I don't think we'll see the financialisation of every bloody thing on the planet slow down any time soon because people inherently like trade, gambling and shiny new technological gimmickery too much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Dasein


    Ideological might be the better adjective than emotional.


    also, something you should note when you are going on about 'The Banks' ... there's already loads of non-bank finance, it grew massively after the crash. My own mortgage is with a non-bank lender. Banks can and are being replaced by non-crypto solutions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    A lot of people just use "the banks" to refer to the traditional financial players. I think if something useful does come from crypto, it will end up with some sort of centralisation. So, if you have some kind of peer to peer lending, there needs to be an intermediary as you wouldn't be able to finance legal action to enforce repayment on your own.

    A lot of it seems to be we have this great solution, blockchain, we just need to find problems to solve with it. It reminds me of a guy I worked with at a trading firm who was interested in machine learning and wanted to use it to develop trading strategies, he just wasn't clear how or in what way it solved problems that we currently had. I thought it was a bit arseways, rather than looking for something to solve a problem, it is looking for problems to solve with a solution. To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,059 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Yes, exactly. This is where all the Web3 bullshit came from, it's absolute nonsense, but it is pushed because someone has a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 986 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    Cmon lads, open the minds

    This reminds me of when some guy said, ok we have a bunch of networks and we have found a way to make one single network of all these smaller networks, and another came along and asked ok but what problem does that solve.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    It is very easy to point to the development of the internet, but the fact is it was solving an immediate problem, transmitting information quickly. Not every new technology will follow the same pattern as I am sure you will agree.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    To follow on from your analogy, it is more similar to 2 competing protocols to do the same job. One is established with all the required features. The other one is missing a lot of features and has a lot of problems, people are struggling to see in what way it makes it better. The answer: the engineers want to move to it because it is really cool



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,738 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    That's a totally different thing though.

    The internet solves a tonne of actual problems and was designed and modified to continue to do that.

    Crypto currency doesn't really (currently) solve any problems. The blockchain itself may have some positive uses.

    There are people saying that it increases transparancy etc as well, however isn't one of the listed "benefits" of crypto - annonominity?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    I think there will end up being some positive uses of blockchain. One thing I saw was using it to verify authenticity in supply chain management. The example given was using it with micro lots of coffee. My cousin runs a logistics consultancy and didn't really see the benefit, but it's just one opinion.

    When using crypto for purchasing things I would have thought the public nature of the blockchain is a disadvantage rather than a benefit. I wouldn't want people to be able to see all my transactions. Another disadvantage would be the difficulty in reversing payments without a centralised intermediary. If I buy something and they don't send it, how can I get chargeback?



  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭AnF Chuckie egg


    You don't need a blockchain to authenticate, you just need Cryptography.

    99.99% of everything that is authenticated on the internet today uses a mixture of Asymmetric key cryptography and digital certificates.

    Btw the certification authorities behind the digital certificates are now looking like more centralization than we ever had from Governments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,363 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Regarding security, couldn’t a big advance ins quantum computing end up superseding the block chain?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭el diablo


    See what? Why are you quoting me? And by the way, the crypto era is far from over....

    We're all in this psy-op together.🤨



  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Dasein


    Of course it is.

    It's become embarrassing; institutions are gone and they have all the capital and all the political power - the two things required to move the financial industry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 986 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    nonsense, coins will continue to be traded, and exchanges will continue to rise and fall

    people have predicted the valuation of coins/market much less than they are today, and that's without FTX and others falling



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,335 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    If that happens then your bank is compromised already and everything else.



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