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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭KildareP


    Your pension is buying into a fantastic green washing machine.

    Your pension fund buys bogland or forest, works out how much carbon it can capture over a certain period, and then it sells those credits as a commodity to someone who wants to buy themselves green credentials.

    Bogs are also extremely popular sites for wind farms as they tend to be flat and open so exposed to wind. Buy a bog now, lease it out to someone who wants to build an onshore wind farm, pure profit!


    So if I'm a cement manufacturer using a great big dirty coal or tyre fired cement kiln, and I want to call myself 100% green, I work out my carbon footprint over the year based on what I burn.

    If I buy enough carbon credits so that when I subtract them from my carbon footprint, the balance is 0, voila! I am now a 100% green cement plant! Just like that...


    The same has been going on in electricity for years now where SSE Airtricity and Energia claim 100% green energy to all of their customers, yet between them they own almost twice as much fossil fired generating plant capacity as they do renewable.

    The Irish grid is also one unified network that everyone collectively feeds into and then draws energy out from, it can't differentiate electricity from Moneypoint's coal plant versus power coming from a wind farm.

    Thus, any shortfall can simply be covered by a Guarantee of Origin credit which can be traded openly on the global markets and once they buy enough to offset their fossil based power generation output - voila! 100% green electricity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Deleted



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Good to see some of the Green movement advocating nuclear power as a way of reducing carbon emissions going forward.

    Also its hard to believe that we have incorporated short sightedness and stupidity into our laws. Section 18, subsection 6 of the Electricity Regulation Act 1999 bans the use of nuclear energy as a form of electricity generation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    if they had their way everything you look forward to in life would be taken from you. They are already attacking the world cup.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭KildareP


    In the not so distant past, laws also banned contraception, divorce, same sex marriage, and the ability for women to continue working in the civil service once they got married.

    Just like all of the above, opinion's change and laws thus change to reflect those opinions.

    As we face into increasing risks of widespread rolling blackouts in the years ahead, all those hours sitting in the dark will give a lot of people time to reflect and question just what the hell we as a country are doing when we can't even keep the damn lights on.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    From the latest COP27 statementvas reported by RTE:"While last year's climate summit had also agreed to call on countries to outright phase out inefficient fossil fuel subsidies, this year's draft encourages efforts to "phase out and rationalise inefficient fossil fuel subsidies".

    Catherine Abreu of the E3G non-profit worried that tweak to the language could represent a weakening of the goal.

    "Instead of a reference to phasing out all fossil fuels we have an even weaker version of the language around coal and fossil fuel subsidies than we got last year," she said."..end of quote.

    I totally agree but only on one particular point: we should phase out inefficient subsidies, both fossil AND renewables.

    The irony is that they only mention inefficient fossil fuel subsidies ignoring the huge Green elephant in the room. Because everything Green is good, everything Black is bad. It really is that simple. And it makes things SO much easier and simpler, also great for educating children to raise awareness without having to think too much. That wasted thinking energy could be put to much better use in ACTION. Think less and do more=problem solved! And it works for everybody, children and anxious teenagers, politicians, the media, education. Isnt it great?!😉



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    No moving of goalposts.

    Just pointing out yet again the realities to you. If you keep choosing to ignore and attempting to avoid them, I`m not going to lose any sleep over it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    nuclear is where the whole world will ultimately end up IMO. It will just take a lot of wailing from certain quarters in the meantime. When emissions continue to increase over the next few years and it becomes clear that renewables will not possibly keep up, the penny will start to drop. Space travel will ultimately be nuclear powered and drive technology, which will get smaller, and become part of our broader infrastructure

    solar and wind will exist for sure. Individual dwellings and maybe small scale industries could be solar powered using future battery technology. I certainly plan for my home in the hills to ultimately run off the grid

    but powering the world, growing industries with wind and solar? Even hydrogen (with the huge energy needed to create it). Forget about it. It’s a like dream. It’ll be nuclear on a massive scale….only after the lifetimes of many on here



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Good to notice.

    My estimation is that by 2050 the biggest production of energy will still and increasingly come from fossil fuels, that nuclear energy will grow in percentage, especially for electricity generation and that consequently less efficient and less reliable renewables will fall after 2030. The global temperature will have risen somewhat, in line with general predictions. More people lifted out of poverty, a greener planet, a more adaptive environment especially in agriculture and history books will have a special section called Western Climate Panic in which the west decided to shoot itself in the head before popular pushback reversed the trend.

    Or: the West has managed to kill itself with civil war while the rest of the world shake their heads. With borders to keep the western hordes out..



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nuclear will grow, but only by a few % globally

    Its on the verge of being passed out by renewables right now, never mind in a decade or more



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    200Km in a day with a load of goods for export delivered overseas on a bike is fair old going. The Pony Express riders only averaged 120Km-160Km a day and that was overland carrying only mail and they rode horses. Sound like greens have developed supermen/women.

    Crossing the Atlantic by sail takes 3-4 weeks. More if the wind is not in your favor. The record for your "old-school-sails" for a cargo ship is 12 days 6 hours. You may not have noticed, but supply lines since Covid are now a major problem. Times like those aren`t going to help.

    Ah yes, hydrogen. The green hopium drug that will literally eat electricity to produce where the problem is a lack of electricity generation, at a cost they have no idea of and not much of an idea on storage or transportation either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Renewables are not even running to stand still with demand and the green plan is to add to that demand by electrifying transport, heating and everything under the sun. It`s the human equivalent of a dog chasing his tail.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I just think you’re utterly wrong. It’s quiet on the nuclear front now…..fast forward a couple of decades and I suspect that, as energy demands continue to skyrocket, this will change and we will, globally, go all in to nuclear as the only way to meet demand. Technology will have massively improved as well….huge strides being made in NASA’s Mars efforts, which will depend on nuclear.

    Do you honestly think that in a hundred years time the world is going to be powered by wind and solar and not nuclear? If you I respectfully suggest that you’re deluded. Renewables in the grand scheme of things will be local solutions

    Just wish we could push on with it now TBH

    edit; as I’m talking Jeremy Hunt talking about nuclear being the future of clean energy and (I quote) “the biggest step in our journey to energy independence” and announces a new nuclear plant to be built



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    I dont think nuclear will become a final solution, at least not before 2050 although nobody can truely foresee the technical progress and timeframe. It has and will have clear advantages in growth over unreliables like solar and wind of which we can be certain they wont work in the future by efficiency alone, never mind scale, land use etc .We might see a further 10% rise of unreliables in the context of total energy production for the near future in the west. A bit more wind here a bit more solar there but there is clearly a ceiling. Many countries already see the grid strained by moving fr coal/oil power stations to solar/wind even if it is just houses returning power to the grid. That is not sustainable. The stretched envelope analogy. Holland is a good example. They are seriously thinking of getting back to gas..



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I remember minister Michael McGrath being questioned on rte radio about the Engineers Ireland suggestion and his reaction was a hysterical “no, no, no.” Politicians pandering to populism (yet again) me thinks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    our political system hasnt a fcuking clue about this problem, its simply ill-equipped in dealing with it, the greens are also not able to see the bigger picture, refusing to even sanction studies to see the viability of the nuclear option. i think it could be a generational problem, the fears of nuclear are completely understandable, but the facts are solid, fossil fuels are killing far more than nuclear, these are the facts!



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Im afraid engineers are a too technical bunch to have around a discussion table unless they work in the green tech industry themselves promoting their business. If they are not they must be advocates sponsored by the fossil fuel industry and can be dismissed. See how that works? You are either promoting green tech or the enemy. You cannot be a neutral and have to pick a team..with that mindset i will a priori be on the opposite side..



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Its not me saying it, its the International Energy Agency

    Read the report and come back to me with the points you disagree with



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Did I say anything about my 2050? You’ve responded to a point I did not make. I agree that we are likely to continue messing around with ‘net’ zero (the clue is in the name - actual emissions will be high but there will be some clever carbon account and carbon credit trading) for the next couple of decades. I said that ‘IMO’ long term to actually reduce emissions and meet what will be a continued massive increase in global energy demand we will inevitable avail of new and improved nuclear tech. I won’t be around and now will you, but I have zero doubt that our future, after this period of messing around the edges and not actually changing much, will be nuclear. As a race we will be going to Mars in nuclear powered spacecraft and you think that that tech won’t be deployed in our energy system?

    I agree that we are talking hypotheticals though. 2030 and 2050 paths will generally be met through clever messing with carbon accounting

    (I work in the industry, as I’ve discussed before, by the way. That is what has made me cynical about the published ‘net’ numbers and the associated offsetting …..I’ve seen what goes behind them)



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,616 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    The island of Ireland has 4 airports that serve international flights, 3 of them probably under utilised.

    To have people drive from Mayo, Galway, Clare, Limerick, etc to Dublin while Shannon airport is silent, and then to permit a second runway at Dublin, was a criminal decision. It should never have happened.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So if you think the world is going to switch to nuclear

     I suspect that, as energy demands continue to skyrocket, this will change and we will, globally, go all in to nuclear as the only way to meet demand.

    How to you propose we deal with the fact that the fuel is not a sustainable source as its a finite supply?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Only one sentence in the report on where the raw materials are going to be extracted from and harnessed, to deal with the mass electrification that accompanies net zero: "Production capacity for many key materials and technologies needs to be scaled up to align with net zero ambitions."

    Ed Conway (economics editor, Sky News) did a quite revealing piece about this.




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I see the Regulator just last month had a problem over that as well.

    Figures published by the CRU show that 56% of the electricity sold here last year generated by renewables, when the actual proportion generated was 35%. According to the regulator, Irish suppliers buy E.U.- approved guaranteed green certificates of origin which allow them to count renewable electricity generated and used elsewhere in the European Economic Area as theirs.

    From memory I seem to recall there was an Article by Conor Pope not long ago on the same double selling and counting with these certificated. The scams around this whole thing just keep growing with the E.U. becoming more and more complicit with dodgy green-washing bookkeeping massaging the figures to look better than they really are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306



    Who do these rural Kilkenney dwellers think they are, objecting to 600 foot turbines outside their houses? The sheer effrontery! Ship them off to shoebox apartments in Tallaght, I say, and let social services take their kids. Nobody should be allowed stand in the way of our all-natural industrialised Green landscape.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    the same question applies to the material in renewables hardware and battery storage if the world were to switch to 100% wind and solar tomorrow. It’s not an unlimited supply and is incredibly environmentally destructive in many cases to mine

    The answer to both, nuclear and renewables, is that we will ultimately need to find resources outside of earth. And I have no doubt that is why space exploration ambitions are very rapidly accelerating.

    After our lifetimes of course



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A brief Scientific American piece from 2009. 200 years at least. Technology refinements, including fast breeder reactors can lengthen the time considerably beyond this.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That’s a very good thread. Even if someone were to dispute the numbers or some of the finer detail, the principle - that being the large demands on our mineral resources from renewables hardware and batteries - is just not discussed. Ever. It’s actually remarkable how it’s pushed under the rug



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭Furze99




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