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Insulated plasterboard

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  • 09-10-2022 9:13pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 18


    Hi all,

    We have 50mm insulated foilbacked plasterboard on all our external walls on a semi detached. (Cavity block)

    We wanted to take it off and put 100mm insulated slab on instead but 2 builders have said why don't we just insulate straight on top of it with another 50mm board, our only concern in sweating in between the boards or would that even happen?


    Any advice be great appreciated.

    Thanks



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Get you house tested for air tightness.

    Before spending on extra insulation, have you considered that air leakage may be an issue?

    Addressing your air tightness will likely yield a better result. Adding insulation (increasing insulation thickness) will not generally address this real heat loss mechanism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,283 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Is it an option to externally wrap the house? That will sort any heat loss air tightness issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭MicktheMan




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,283 ✭✭✭Gusser09




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Dudda


    External insulation doesn't make your house airtight on its own. It may help a bit but won't make the house airtight. Have external insulation myself and have put it on lots of other buildings.


    With regard to the original question you have to be careful in having to much internal insulation as you can have interstitial condensation. This is where you move the dew point which is the point at which the moisture in the air condenses to water on the inside of the cavity. Companies like Kingspan will work this out for you. You may then need to take into account breather membranes to prevent this.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18 dublindaveae111


    Thanks for your reply, I've kinda come to terms that it won't be fully airtight but I'm doing the best I can. It's a reno and it's been done in 3 stages. I've used airtightness tape where I could. Just wondering would there be any harm adding the extra slab onto of existing. I will have mechanical ventilation. Thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 18 dublindaveae111


    @Dudda yeah kingspan etc recommend replacing the existing board as they cant stand over it without specs. I'm not sure of specs are it's plastered and there years. Maybe I am better off replacing the whole thing with 100mm board. With the due point. If I'm having no temperature issues now would adding a bigger slab potentially cause an issue? Thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭JimmyMW


    yes the more insulation internally, vs whats in the cavity will move the due point, if moved enough you could wet the internal leaf and end up with mold growth behind the new board etc, this needs to be carefully considered before any decision is made



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    What's the rule of thumb when doing this kind of work for what insulation you can put on internal wall compared to what's already inside in cavity



  • Registered Users Posts: 46,050 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    From memory it's one third. Say 60 mm in cavity so 20 mm max. internal. However you would be better advised to get it calculated properly. Even an email to the tech dept of the insulation manufacturers would get you an exact answer.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18 dublindaveae111


    Thanks @JimmyMW, I've no insulation inside the cavity I don't think. House built in 1950s, only insulation is the 50mm on interior. So I should be OK then to add the additional 50mm slab ontop?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭TimHorton


    Looking at getting a Heat Loss Survey Done Similar to this video I would imagine https://www.bsria.com/uk/compliance/airtightness/ - The cost will be close to €800 (Seal up Ventilation/Add FAN to door (Simulate Cold/Windy Day) /Take Images) they simply provide Infra Photos and Advice! Would investing in a Thermal Imaging Camera that you can use over a longer period be a better DIY option? I would imagine that on a cold day like today Air Leakage would be easy to see with such a device ?




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭monseiur


    Hi MicktheMan, Not wishing to hijack this thread, but can I ask a quick question - is it ok to mechanically fix insulated slab directly on to a solid, mass concrete wall, no cavity. Just worried that wall may sweat causing mildew etc. Slab would be 62.50mm (50mm insulation + slab)

    Thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    You could go that route but tbh in the absence of training and experience you likely will end up with a poor result (then again as I have been doing these surveys for nigh on 2 decades I would say that wouldn't I!). A TI camera is just a tool in a tool box, no different to a hammer or saw in a builders tool box but in the hands of an untrained/ inexperienced amateur ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    I would need more info but on the face of it, I would be quite concerned about increasing the risk of condensation in your wall, never a good idea



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭TimHorton


    Any pointers on best practice to insulate north facing eaves ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭MicktheMan




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭TimHorton


    Prevent Cold Bridging ? What is the best approach ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Preventing cold bridging ... how?

    Are you externally insulating?

    What is the wall detail?

    Could you sketch out the issue (cold bridge) you're trying to solve?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭TimHorton


    Thanks for engaging MicktheMan, Not doing EWI just yet, Just looking to get the attic Insulatated correctly via DIY. Currently, the Attic Insulation does not meet the Cavity Wall Insulation, While using the diagram attached as a reference my Attic Insulation stops approx where the green Arrow is , This detail (found on web) indicates that there should be continuous insulation linking the wall and attic insulation. Is that correct?

    I am not sure of the detail of my Bungalow (built 2005/2006) as there seems to be some kind of cap/closer and I can feel rigid insulation coming up to meet the plasterboard but not sure about the rest

    1st Picture is Soffit/Brick detail. I don't know anymore as I did not build the house.

    I can feel rigid polyiso-type insulation meeting the ceiling plasterboard as indicated by the red box. Is this insulation likely to be the Cavity Insulation ?

    Would I be doing the right thing if I join the attic insulation to the cavity wall insulation while leaving a 50 mm air gap?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    If I understand your pics and description correctly, what you are trying to do has nothing really to do with the eaves, hence my confusion.

    From the pics (top tip; when using close-up pictures, take another one further away to give context), it looks like a piece of rigid insulation was used to close the cavity. If this is the case then once a 50mm or equivalent ventilation gap is maintained above the insulation then you should extend the ceiling insulation to cover the cavity closer and wall plate as depicted in the drawing above.

    This will deal with the cooler ceiling close to the wall junction. However, whether this will address the tb at the top of the wall is questionable because it depends on how the rigid cavity wall insulation was installed in the first place. Experience would point to a likely tb remaining.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    What's your wall makeup from inside to outside?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭TimHorton


    Plastered Wall, 100mm Cavity with 50 MM Insulation and then Block then Plaster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭TimHorton


    Got the IR Camera , Cold Spots visible - Removed the existing insulation and replaced with 300MM , Massive Improvement. Thinking of Drylining External Walls with 2 Layers of overlapped 25 PIR then plasterboard then add a decentralised heat recovery unit in both bedrooms replacing the 6" Holes in the Wall. https://www.vent-axia.com/heatsave - What do you think ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Tbh, there are just too many variables at play to give meaningful advice.

    There are a number of reasons for not doing what you propose wrt internal insulation which have been discussed to death here on boards, the two main ones being;

    • risk of interstitial condensation
    • loss of thermal mass

    If extra wall insulation is desired, I would pump the remaining cavity.

    As regards the ventilation, a whole house solution is, imo, usually better but with the (lack of) information I have about your house, any comment by me is not really worth much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭TimHorton


    So are you saying that 62.5mm insulated plasterboard is not a vapour barrier and there is a risk of interstitial condensation ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭MicktheMan




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭TimHorton


    Based on your posts EWI 600mm below finished floor level is the only show in town , And even if someone asks about a blocking a vent you manage to shoehorn in that they require an Air Tightness Survey ! People are looking for actual advice and solutions. I have 2 problem North Facing Bedrooms , I don't want a whole house solution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    My advice is based on being in the business of diagnosing similar issues and offering evidence based targeted successful practical and affordable solutions to homeowners / building owners for more than 2 decades. 

    You come across as the classic internet randomer who looks for advice by giving very little information, then when they don't like the answer they're given, they go on to attack the person genuinely trying to help. 

    Good luck with that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 46,050 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Really? Talk about being ungrateful. Maybe you should consider employing an energy consultant privately and pay for the advice.



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