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So "X" - nothing to see here. Elon's in control - Part XXX **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I think there's a difference in working for a Tesla or a SpaceX competed to Twitter.

    People working in a place like SpaceX might view it as something "bigger than a job" to some extent.

    It's space exploration after all.

    A potentially similar argument could be made for Tesla where you are changing how people drive and are saving the environment etc.

    But Twitter???

    No one works for Twitter and thinks they are changing the world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭The Spider


    Big problem here for the remaining staff who want to run is that their salaries are way above and beyond what they could get elsewhere, especially now, a year ago having Twitter on your cv would have almost guaranteed you the pick of jobs, not so much now I’d imagine, in IT timing is everything, down to when you leave, how long you stay etc.

    The other point which was touched on was that a lot of people weren’t working very hard and will go kicking and screaming into an environment where they have to work, although by the sounds of it staying is automatically going to push you into that environment.

    3 months salary as severance is Shite by Irish standards and I don’t think too many people would sign a release of claims for that kind of money, couple of things need to happen if Musk wants people out he needs to announce voluntary redundancy to get sign ups and decent severance, ie 6 weeks for every year along those lines, the current 3 months if you’ve been with the company a year or 10 years is unfair to the people there the longest they’ll stick their heels in.

    failing the voluntary route they’ll hope for unfair dismissals and bring a case, 2 years Twitter salary tax free will answer a lot of problems and allow them to take a lower paying job, that’s the way it’s going to play out, my money is on unfair dismissals because Musk won’t like the idea of being ‘blackmailed’ by voluntary.

    Post edited by The Spider on


  • Posts: 266 [Deleted User]


    There also relatively few big breaks in space tech - it’s a pretty small field with very few players. The only ones doing space exploration until very recently were government bodies like NASA or the European Space Agency and the jobs were as rare as hens teeth and competed for, much like getting a gig in high academia.

    Twitter is one of lots of Silicon Valley / Northern California and global tech sector companies. It’s a huge, buzzing sector and people are highly mobile between companies, which tend to cluster to try and keep and poach talent.

    The perks, locations, work from home options and atmosphere are about marketing the companies to potential talent.

    Comparing Twitter with Space X or with Tesla, which is primarily a manufacturing company at this stage, is just a bit ridiculous. There are in very different niches.

    It’s capitalism. The coders, engineers, product developers and everyone else in that sector at high level are in high demand. If you don’t offer them something that’s attractive, they’ll walk. Nobody is going to bust their gut working for some entirely private entity, in which they’ve no interests and which is treating them badly. What’s in it for them?! A blue tick? 😂

    Twitter has to compete in the knowledge economy and that includes competing for and retaining knowledge and talent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Aye I have never got the Idea of loyalty to a tech company. I know they like to present this family angle leaflets corporate magazines. It's all fake. MNC I worked for used to send us that junk in the post not even on Email. Addressed to me and the partner. USMNC just want you to flog your guts out for as little as they can pay. It's a cutthroat sector. Unless your in on the ground say a dev or software engineer your expendable. I always found USMNC have far to many managers vs people doing the work. I for example had a team leader and they had a manager both would come over to you. Hr was a huge issue to if you were not playing ball you would be brought in for "Performance meetings" On a team I ran as my managers go to person I knew the metrics and it was basically a way of warning you without warning you. The whole sector can be very toxic.

    Twitter is suffering from great jobs and perks coming to an end. It's basically a .com.

    There can be huge attrition rates in roles too. Person in 5 years their then looking to get rid after they train in someone else new out of collage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,052 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Is it standard to have to work on a company laptop?


    I've been using my own personal machine for the last 5 years remote, I'm pretty sure Citrix does not have the ability to report on other activities on my computer.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Good thread on the issues that could arise from Musk's 24 hour ultimatum email.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,995 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You should tell Instagram that GDPR isn’t a thing for them and they don’t have to pay the €400 million fine.

    Honestly, if you don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t post and make a fool of yourself.

    I’ve no idea what kind of employee monitoring you’re referring to, but I suspect it’s something that happened in the States, not in Europe (where GDPR applies).

    Here’s some professional advice on the matter.




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,287 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    None of that has to do with the fact that both loyalty and respect have to be earned by one's deeds, not by the amount of money that goes into one's pocket, because a better rate of pay can often be found elsewhere if one looks hard enough.

    I'm not at all sure that you understand what loyalty actually is or how it comes about. But here's a tip, it has nothing to do with money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,638 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Musk cheerleaders choosing to ignore GDPR AND confuse loyalty with mercenary does show brilliantly the mindset of Musks fans.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    It'd be a useful straw poll to know what everybody's respective jobs were, less out of judgement but more to know how their mentality stacks up against the sector they work in. Maybe there are some industries where culturally there remains some deference towards "loyalty" as it pertains to a Voice of God worship? Thinking maybe really traditional roles like law or accountancy firms?

    Cos as an IT flunkey, the idea I must be "loyal" to the CEO that borders on worship, like my paycheque is some kind of King's Shilling that buys unquestioning slavery, is laughable and unrealistic against the modern WebDev office. And as I said, going double for the modern idea of "gigs" replacing careers. Maybe when I was in my mid-20s, and too raw to stand up for myself, I'd have bought into this myht - but as a calloused 40-something? Fúck off Elon Musk and your ilk. Stick to rockets.

    I'd respect Musk's attitude a lot more if I knew he was also going to stay late, code "hardcore" (whatever the fúck that means, though we can guess) with the rest of the grunts sleeping under their desks ... but ahhhhhhh I don't think so.

    And I've worked that kind of office: oh we're all in this together guys, you gotta work 'til midnight or it's Goodbye Company!! Then you look out towards the Account Management department around 7:30pm - and all they've all gone home. Absolutely nobody ever hits retirement, looks back on a career and thinks: wow, I'm glad I spent all those late nights, and destroyed my social life and mental health for a Facebook Advert or whatnot.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Mercenaries, that's a perfect description:

    • they sell their skills for money
    • they are good and they like what they do, otherwise they won't be around for too long
    • they can be summary terminated for disobeying or questioning their CO


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,984 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Fire half the work-force, then give the other half 24 hours notice to work twice as hard or be fired.

    From the many comments I've read from people under Elon over the years, it's clear he despises people who "don't work as hard as him". I have no doubts he is getting a perverse pleasure from purging this company regardless of whether it stays in business or not.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Yet they can't be terminated because most contracts have notice periods, laws protecting privacy, laws protecting wrongful termination and most of all: workplaces aren't the army. The boss is not an infallible entity one must kiss the ring for and holding employees hostage such that criticism of Dear Leader is punishable by death sacking is ... well, it's Patently reductionist and nosense - nor matches anything relating to reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,005 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    He can largely get away with this in the US, but he won't be able to do anything with the Irish operations that goes against Irish or EU employment law.

    Speaking of things like loyalty, I used to work for a company called Stream Global Services (now a part of Convergys), and they did an employee survey with one of the questions being "Are you proud to work for Stream?". It got a very low return on proud employees.

    So we were all brought into meetings, and the head of HR for our office asked about it, so I told her that nobody cares who Stream are. They're a company that runs call centres, who pay low wages. Why would you be proud of that? If asked where you work, you answer that you do support/sales/training for Client X, not Stream. She said she was proud of working for them, so I said that no, you're proud of being head of HR in an office that employs over 300 people from fifteen different countries. Proud of your own accomplishments, but not proud to work for that specific company.

    After those meetings where I'm sure others said similar, they started doing quite a bit more charity related things, so maybe they got the message.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    We get asked that same question every single year in the annual employee survey and get similar reactions to lower scores for that question.

    We have a very senior leader in the US who when giving "townhall" updates had this habit of inserting pauses in his updates where in the US he'd get lots of whooping and cheering , but in the rest of the world he'd get absolutely nothing.

    He'd say - "Last Quarter we did X Billion dollars in sales" or whatever and then he'd stop, expecting the whooping and cheering he gets in the US , but would be met with nothing in Europe.

    To be fair to him he's learned and now his delivery in Europe is very different to how he does it in the US , but it took him quite a while.

    They do seem to have this need to be "All in!!" on everything they do - Cheering at work , bumper stickers and flags about their kids school or who they are voting for , it's all very unnecessarily public.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,995 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    By the sounds of things we work for the same company



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,995 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,287 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Performative woohoo.

    It's all part of the American corporate bullshit that was mentioned earlier. A completely deceptive set of ideas and efforts used to pull the wool over the eyes of the more niave element of the workforce. But at least that part of the dog and pony show is largely missing from the Irish/European workplace, thankfully.

    I, too, used to work for a large American company and the "aren't we great" crap went down like a lead balloon over here, while in the States it was astonishing to see just how lapdoggish some people were, as if all the whooping, hollering, back patting was going to help when the time came that the company no longer wanted you and handed a redundancy as a thanks for all the hard work.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Nothing as extreme as pausing for applause, but I do notice the difference in terms of externalised enthusiasm between our American departments and our engineering one - which is predominantly European + a mix of other nationalities. There's no clash or anyhting but curious how Americans seem so ... I dunno, hyped-up all the time, be it superficial or genuine.

    Reminds me also how they tend to applause after a movie and that irrationally annoys me lol.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Very much a cultural thing I think - The whole concept of "American Exceptionalism" is drummed into them from day one that they feel the need to manufacture the excitement and the "Wow , we're awesome" bit the whole time.

    The Pep rallies , the bumper stickers , the flags - It all smacks of a level of insecurity that says "If we don't make sure everyone knows how awesome we are , then maybe we're not actually awesome"



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭Christy42


    I mean everyone dedicated to the same goal does make the goal a lot easier so I get why companies try and foster it. It gets more hours in jobs, more focus at work etc if everyone buys into what the company is working for. The main difference is that for some reason those in the US believe that it is to their benefit to join in on this.


    Companies will match salaries to the market so it makes no difference if they make or lose an extra billion to workers. A large issue is that the success is disconnected from the workers so unless a company hits very hard times there is no real benefit to drive a companies success.


    We will see what effect corporate culture will have with twitter. It seems like Elon will trial and error till he reaches what twitter was doing 2 months ago. So losing a few billion but remaining solvent in the end as he offers the same product that was there a few months ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    If you don't know who he is, he's worthy of his own wiki page.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,567 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Twitter 2.0, 1.0 was bad enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    Any idea what Musk is planning to build exactly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,417 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...a solid legal argument of why his creditors should stick with him, by the looks of it!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Twitter, with more adverts? Get the Blue Ticks right this time - though all the hardcore coding won't solve for a good admin and moderation department. Either way I suspect the short answer is "more monetisation avenues"



  • Registered Users Posts: 60,636 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    How long could Twitter stay live for if it was to lose say another 50% of it staff tonight at 5pm ET.

    They would be down to around 1700 or so staff then however would they be the right staff in the right areas to keep the show on the road.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not worthy of a Blue Tick from Twitter either so he can be that worthy of much.



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