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solve the housing problem easily...some solutions?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,319 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...again, such actions havent caused our housing problems, we re currently experiencing the catastrophic failure of the financialisation of our markets, and we re not the only country experiencing this problem!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    The council purchasing private stock to house council tenants hasn't put upward pressure on prices for everyone else? Right...

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,319 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...again, its the overall approach and process that is causing this, the whole process of promoting particular sectors of the economy, in particular the fire sectors(finance, insurance and real estate), to dictate and dominate the process, whos main goals are to maintain continual rising prices, is ultimately why we are where we are, this is policy driven! yes state interactions are also adding to this mess, but its ultimately ideologically driven, and now its fcuked!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Yes, it is a multi-faceted problem, but when councils are outbidding working couples and families to house a tenant, this adds upward pressure to rental and purchase prices. It might be unpopular to say, but I don't think it's right, or prudent to leave council tenants in larger properties than they need after the kids have moved out (sometimes to another council home).

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    when the council buys private houses ,it reduces the supply of houses on the market to buy ,this increases prices in general.

    besdsits dont exist anymore, every flat has to have en suite bathroom .theres no easy solution, we need more houses built, increase height limits for apartments in citys, to 10 to 15 storeys .alot of council houses have only one person living in a 3 bed house .

    theres 1000s of boarded up empty council flats .



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Well yes many countries would do that e.g Australia, Canada, America, bunch of others.


    I'm not saying neccessarily to do that and EU citizens have it easier of course.

    But it is true a large amount of social accommodation is occupied by foreign nationals. That isn't common in many parts of the world. It DOES have an impact. Anybody in the country for less than 10 or 15 years shouldn't be given keys to council gaffs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Returning emigrants get feck all so nobody needs to worry on that score.



  • Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭jimmybobbyschweiz


    The only people I know living in four beds are older couples with no need for more than one bedroom. It is so dysfunctional that younger families get squashed into apartments while wealthy older people can't fill the space of multiple bedroom houses!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,794 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    The housing crisis is much worse in Ireland than most other countries



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    You could be here 100 years and won't give a council house unless you are a resident. The chap I know is hoping to get rent allowance not a council gaf and fully deserves it IMHO.


    There seems to be some here who think that immigrants should have no rights and live in abject poverty.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭b v


    Someone who has been here for 100 years is very much resident by definition 😂😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    It does to a certain extent but, the council having invested in residential property and housed a family, that family is no longer competing with others for accommodation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    It's a perpetual culture. If council tenants are given houses basically for free, then more jump on the wagon. Ordinary working people can't afford to guy a house, as these days, there needs to be 2 applicants with tens of thousands in savings, no kids and good jobs. A "single parent" on the other hand gets housed more quickly with more kids.

    There are those who have a genuine need and there are those who game the system, often copying what their parents and other siblings do. The latter type do add competition to the market in 2 ways. By getting housed for free, others will see this as an easier route to a roof over their head. Unfortunately the most likely path for their kids will be more of the same.

    Placing council tenants into the same properties others pay hundreds of thousands of euro for is not the right way of doing things. It makes the property unavailable to people who wanted to buy it. It makes it more expensive for those same people to buy any property. The ones with their hands out seem to get priority over those who deserve it.

    We are now seeing similar trends for finding a GP to take on new patients. Private patients unable to get into a GP surgery, but medical card holders get assigned by the HSE and so have the distinct advantage of having a GP guaranteed and who also pay nothing for the privilege. This was discussed on the radio earlier this week. Madness.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,363 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    A council house should never be seen as a forever home.

    You get a 3/4 bed house when you need it with children etc, but when they are grown and flown the nest, then you should downsize, get a smaller house, releasing the 3/4 bed for a family and so the cycle continues.

    Councils need to build different types of homes: family homes, single person accommodation, retirement villages to free up family homes etc. Not everyone needs to live in a 3 bed semi



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    To some extent yes and it’s because we have this dumb idea that the crises can be solved by everyone owning a house financed by taking on huge amounts of debt or relying on social services to do it. The pain is going to have to get a lot worse before people are willing to accept that not everyone can own their own house and are willing to look at realistic solutions - give it another fifty years may be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    Have a look on Shelbourne road, Ballsbridge. Theres social housing people living in the former officers quarters, Beggars Bush barracks.

    They must be worth mega millions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,117 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    Not near me. Can’t remember when I last saw different types of housing being built



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,794 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Have you ever been on daft.ie? It sounds like you haven't, to say its grim is an understatement. I've checked and Dublin is worse than almost every major city in the civilized world.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    They do what? Downsize tenants based on their evolved needs? I don't believe so. Anyone living in single occupant or 1 bed dwellings have been there from the start and there are very few of those around. When tenants get older and live alone, the council spend thousands adapting the property to their needs rather than downsizing the tenant from a large 3/4 bed house.

    I have personally known 2 couples who separated in the last decade who all now occupy 2 or 3 bed properties given to them by the council. Most working couples wouldn't have that luxury. They would either have to stay in the same property as a separated couple, or one move back home to their parents.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    It certainly can seem unfair, however fairness and solving the housing crisis are two different things. Consider that city centre development that got some publicity recently. It is true that there is no way most first time buyers can afford those appartments at market rates. However on the other hand this means that when a council invests in such housing, they are not displacing first time buyers who would likely be buying further out anyway.

    I think the big problem with developments such as these is not the unfairness but rather that they are a sort of "Potemkin Village". Twenty or thirty or less apartments are given publicity and the impression is given that the council is doing their bit to solve the housing problem when in fact nothing has really changed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    If the council or some other organisation with deep pockets did not buy the properties on the open market, the prices would not experience the same upward pressure. Highest bidder wins. Remove the council, hedge funds, housing charities etc and there would be a much better chance for first time buyers. They should not be the ones disadvantaged because others claim to be.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    That might help buyers but what about renters? There's a rental crisis too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    With more "private" properties being made available to buyers, the same would be true for renters. When property prices are low, so too are rental prices, so it makes for a healthier market if we separate the supply chains. Of course there are way more issues at play, but this is a big part of it.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    Rental prices don't follow property prices quite that way however. For example in the property bubble before the last financial crisis property prices outstripped rents by quite a large margin. The problem with limiting those who can buy is that you also limit overall investment in the market and, other things being equal, the number of units built.



  • Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭babyducklings1


    Was in Dublin recently and people were walking around a sleeping bag with a homeless sleeper inside. It’s absolutely dreadful, I lived in Dublin years ago and this wasn’t around, or at least no where near to the extent it is now. Something is wrong. You hear of places like skid row in the US and this problem. But we never had this in Ireland. I know the problems are multi faceted due to the changes in society but it’s just appalling. Something is wrong or broken.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Rental prices very closely follow property prices. When property prices are high, rents are high. When property prices are on their knees, rents are very low. There is always some crossover and judder, but they correlate closely. You must remember the last boom/bust differently than I. The houses on my street were renting for €2,200pm on average when the house prices were 400k in 2007. By 2010, the price to buy was average of 200k. And the rent.....around €1,100 pm. Prices in my area are average of 450k now. Average rent is €2,500 and the pickings are very slim. Compare rentals and cost to buy anywhere inside a city or large urban area and the same is replicated over at least the last 20 years. I don't care to look back any further.

    The problem with is not with limiting those who can buy. The problem is having a single market where the deepest pockets suck up almost all of the domestic stock which either goes to people with no jobs, or they are rented at a premium by some sort of fund. Domestic property should not be allowed to be part of an investment fund. Councils should not be allowed to buy out from under hard working people to give to people who weren't bothered to get a job and opted for strategic begging. Not every council tenant is the same and some are genuine circumstances, but most are cultural or strategic. It's just wrong and is a kick in the teeth for those making a real contribution to society.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical



    You wrote: "Rental prices very closely follow property prices. When property prices are high, rents are high. When property prices are on their knees, rents are very low."

    In general this is not true. See chart below:

    Ireland Price to Rent Ratio

    What this indicates is that there have been huge fluctuations in price as a proportion of rents [source]. If what you were claiming were true, this chart would be more or less flat.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    It gets a bit skewed when you take the whole country into account for ratios as you well know. If you only took the cities and towns (like I said) into account; you know...where most people want to live and where the councils and funds are outbidding FTBs, the picture would be very different. I couldn't find anything more specific than the national ratio. I do believe that rents now are higher with regard to property prices in the large urban areas than they were just before the last crash, but that's because there is more demand for rentals which has been inflamed by the fact that less people can buy than before the last crash.

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