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So "X" - nothing to see here. Elon's in control - Part XXX **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    There's "Entitled to do what he wants with the company he owns" and then there's literally burning it to the ground in Public which is what Musk has done.

    Even if there is some "master plan" underneath it all , he has utterly destroyed what reputation the company had and it will likely never recover.

    This isn't like buying a manufacturing company and closing all the factories only to come out with a great new widget in 12 months time built elsewhere for cheaper and people start buying the new widget.

    What Musk has shown is a complete and utter lack of understanding of what exactly it is that he has bought -

    His statement that "Twitter is a Software and Servers company" (I assume he actually meant "Services" and not Servers) is nonsense.

    Twitter absolutely categorically is not a "Software and Services" company. It's an advertising platform.

    And he's spent the entire duration of his ownership pissing off the advertisers and firing all the staff that get the adverts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,981 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Almost like he made a very bad business decision.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    That's already happening - He's in court right now being sued by Tesla shareholders over his compensation package and whether or not he is appropriately focused on Tesla to warrant the utterly outrageous pay deal he has.

    And as you say - Lots of people will look at how he is acting with Twitter and wonder if that is how he acts in Tesla and SpaceX and it's hard to imagine that it isn't.

    I can absolutely see him being squeezed out of both companies by Shareholders over the coming months , Tesla in particular.

    The Stock price is taking a battering , the wider motor industry has caught up with them in terms of EV technology etc. and the shareholders might decide they want him gone and try to sell the company to one of the big players so they can cash out while they can.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Well isn't that obvious.

    If it does fail, any replacement twitter type service will have to have a more sustainable way of making money.

    The subscription model is probably the way forward for a niche site like twitter. Those of us who love the news and news tweets will probably pay a small fee to keep up to date on twitter.



  • Posts: 266 [Deleted User]


    Well he’s turned Tesla into the ‘Muskmobile’. The brand is now entirely based around his persona.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,994 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    His actions wouldn’t stand up under Irish employment law. The employer can’t unilaterally change the terms and conditions of work (“hardcore”) on a whim. The employer can’t deem people to have resigned. They didn’t resign.

    Meanwhile



  • Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    But it is a software and servers company, it produces nothing but a platform.

    There's a noticeable differences when Elon is CEO of a company, he can most likely do the engineering better than most of the engineers, and the company is no longer driven by the marketing department. If the tech is improved and efficient there's no need to worry about gaining advertising revenue. As ever its bottom up with Elon and I don't think anyone can argue with that, I personally would agree, too many companies are selling a pup with missions and other fluff, relying on marketing to instil an idea and the underlying tech gets left behind.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,530 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Posts: 266 [Deleted User]


    He didn’t even think out the alternative meanings of the word ‘sink’ when it’s used as a verb instead of a noun…

    Are we sure this guy is a genius?

    The whole thing is looking like a Titanic success!



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,686 ✭✭✭✭Penn




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,530 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    he can most likely do the engineering better than most of the engineers

    how? genuine question. his academic qualifications are a B.A. and a B.Sc in economics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,063 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Twitter absolutely categorically is not a "Software and Services" company. It's an advertising platform.

    And he's spent the entire duration of his ownership pissing off the advertisers and firing all the staff that get the adverts.

    Exactly. Social Media companies live or die based upon advertisers revenue. They are not a "Services" company.... Well, they are in that they serve valuable data to their advertisers. But as a platform becomes more and more toxic and partisan, the value of that data diminishes. Advertisers want as broad a pool of data as possible. They want data on people of as many nationalities as possible. As wide an age-gap as possible. As wide a income level as possible. Left, right, centre. Male, female, other. As many religions as possible. They don't want to preach to the choir. They need a diverse pool of data. How diverse do you think Twitter will be in 6 months? In a year? How diverse do you think "truth social" is? How many affluent, educated young transgender people with money to burn do you think there are on truth social? This was all brought up last year on the trump Thread: about Musk's initial spoutings of it being a total "free speech" platform without moderation (This was very early days before he "backed out"). Every single person then said on the thread that it would just turn into 4chan and become so toxic that advertisers would abandon it in droves and move on to the next thing.

    It's not that we had some great insight into the world of high-finance or were some advertisment gurus. It was just simple obvious commonsense. Business is business and a company will not want to be associated with a toxic brand/platform. Now, while there are currently no twitter-killers out there (Mastadon too niche, others extremely partisan one way or another), if there is a gap, SOMEONE will fill it. Unfortunately it will mean that the likes of Zuckerberg or Besos will be the likely candidates.

    It REALLY is strange and I can't help but feel that it is entirely intentional and we are not seeing the big picture



  • Registered Users Posts: 60,636 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    But but he has a Blue Tick and doesn't have parody in his name :)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,530 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    my hunch is that he's a bully and being a bully works in some companies but not others.

    jobs, for example, was known to be a 'toys out of the pram' style of manager at times too. but people would still buy his product.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I'm sorry , but that's just nonsense.

    What "Software & Services" does it sell??

    The only people that pay Twitter to use their platform are Advertisers - Yet you say if they improve their tech they don't need Ad revenue????

    80%+ of Twitters revenue is from advertising , just like every other Social media company.

    VMWare is a Software and Services Company , SalesForce is a Software and Services company.

    Twitter absolutely categorically is NOT a Software and Services Company.

    Also - Musk is NOT an engineer and never has been , he absolutely cannot "do the engineering better than most of the engineers"



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,686 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Yeah but you can tell because Musk responded to him playing along with the joke rather than firing him. Besides, Musk is definitely laughing along with everyone right now, and definitely isn't concerned about the amount of money he's about to lose and the damage to his reputation and possibly even the knock-on effect it will have regarding his other companies. Nope, he's definitely having a good time with the memez and lulz.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭Christy42


    It produces users. That is twitters main production. All the widgets and servers are just to produce users which is the product they sell to advertisers.


    And yes the advertising matters because that is their client base.


    Someone asked why twitter was worth 44 billion. Because something is worth whatever someone will pay for it and Musk agreed to buy twitter for 44 billion. Course it isn't worth that now.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    he can most likely do the engineering better than most of the engineers, 

    Based on what? He turned off MicroServices on a whim, and broke 2FA for starters; he hasn't worked in IT or the web since the early days of PayPal (and it's debatable how much input he had there, open to correction). There's no evidence he codes, or understand coding practises from 2022.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,024 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    How much it costs and how much is worth are different notions. It's like a branded tshirt made in a sweat shop Bangladesh which is worth 3 cents yet it's being sold for 100 euros.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    Where did I say they don't need ad revenue? I said they don't need an oversized marketing department driving the company.

    Improve the tech and user interface/experience and more people will use it, the more people use it then more advertisers will pay for the exposure.

    This isn't rocket science, its bottom up which ruffles a lot of feathers and makes a lot of unnecessary roles obsolete.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,994 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    OK, let's drill into this example then.

    As explained in the texts highlighted above, consent is not a good legal basis for processing employee data, as it is not freely given and can be withdrawn. So they need another legal basis for the ID card data, including a photograph, which is biometric data. The legal basis is going to be something like "to manage access to the building for safety and security reasons" which is fine. They need to inform staff of the legal basis, provide a channel for staff to make Subject Access Requests to see what data is held, have a clear policy around retention and deletion of data, and hold the data securely.

    RFID reach is normally something like 30cm, so unless you're working in a shoebox, they're not using RFID to track your location.

    If they employer turns around and tries to use this data for a different purpose, they are so screwed. If, for example, they use the access card data to reprimand or fire you because you went to the bathroom three times an hour, they would be big trouble with the DPC and WRC. 

    I haven't seen access systems that display a photo which is then verified by a human security officer. It would seem to be over the top for the vast majority of office environments. What companies use such systems in Ireland?

    CCTV systems are well covered in DPC guidance already. CCTV covering a till where cash is handled or a storeroom where goods are being shipped in and out is fine. CCTV over a changing room or break room or toilet is absolutely not fine. CCTV monitoring into a staff member's home via webcam would be an absolute can of worms from a data protection point of view. What happens when other family members are recorded on camera? What happens when someone's naked spouse passes in the background of the camera? What happens when a private conversation is recorded? I can't see how this could get past any sensible GDPR review. I've never heard of any company doing this for staff in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Just a small point: biometric data i.e. face and fingerprint recognition doesn't store actual pictures and fingerprints - it doesn't need to.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    But if they want to make money, then yes, they're going to need marketing driving the bus a little bit here; and you say "improve the tech", but you don't improve the tech stack by arbitrarily firing swathes of departments and turning off critical services for the lols. With rumours of the core IT staff now disappearing there's a severe risk of "brain drain". No it's not rocket science, it's web development - and you don't achieve success by collapsing your knowledge and skill base in the space of a month.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,554 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Oops, my bad


    Hadn't had my 2nd coffee at that stage 🙈🤷‍♂️🤣



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The "User Interface" has never been Twitters problem , certainly not in recent times.

    It's problem has been spam and fake posts and general trolling/sh!t-posting.

    The platform could be the coolest tech ever , but if the content is hateful muck , users won't use it and advertisers absolutely won't want their products to be associated with it.

    You don't "fix" a company by randomly firing 50% of them and then in effect constructively dismissing most of those that are left by making utterly ridiculous demands of them.

    I work in a very large MNC and we got a new VP about 6 month ago , he came to us from another part of the organisation where he had been a "customer" of ours for many years.

    After 3 months of intensively consuming all the information he could, he reckoned he only understood about 50/60% of the detail of what we do and how we do it.

    Only now after 6 months did he feel confident enough to make changes to the organisation to try to streamline activities - And that's for an organisation of about 250 people inside a company he's worked for for 20 years.

    The idea that Musk could walk in and know exactly who did what and what areas were needed/not needed inside about 10 days is fan-boi nonsense of the highest order.

    He has f*cked this up , royally.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Musk has made most of his fortune off the backs of others by demanding more than is reasonable from his employees, he also gets a lot of government subsidies. He has gotten away with it as most don't want to face the uncertainty that unemployment brings, its good to see employees standing up to him. It really highlights the need for unions again, even though it appears unorganized now that enough employees have declined Musks new employment terms he will have to negotiate if he doesn't want his 44Bn investment to go down the drain. Musk thought the employees had the most to loose by not agreeing but as we all know the collapse of Twitter would make quite the dent in Musks fortune and severely damage his credibility with future investors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭rogber


    Almost all Americans seem extremely hyped up, fake enthusiastic about almost everything, and extremely superficial. In reality I'm sure they aren't, but it's a striking cultural difference, this obsession with being positive



  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭one armed dwarf


    As bad as this all is, in a way it's good to have it flame out so publicly. It provides a useful lesson to anyone who thinks that your top performers are replaceable cogs in a totally modular system. The brain drain that is happening at twitter is a terminal blow to the site or service or whatever you want to call it. There's no opportunity for a handover of knowledge between the domain experts, who are the first out the door because they are the ones who will more easily get more suitable positions.

    Even in the best cases, handovers are difficult. Maybe you have one domain expert who's 90 percent certain of how a certain area works, maybe the next senior engineer is slightly less certain. But knowledge can be accrued over time, but not when a huge swath of these experts are all departing en masse. The framework of twitter might have just turned into an arcane puzzle box for its remaining staff. It's just gotten more volatile overnight, and implementing these sweeping new features that will 'save' twitter more risky

    There's no option either for twitter to just thread water for a year or so while they rehire and establish a new foundation of 'domain experts', to carry the tech stack forward. Cause Musk has burnt through so much social capital with its advertisers that the boat is springing leaks from all sides and sinking more quickly. It's the cost of this kind of bluffery, respect your top performers



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,686 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I've seen someone else say (not sure if here or maybe on Twitter itself) that Musk's attitude in bullying employees into accepting awful working conditions and pressures etc usually worked because a) he was part of the companies from earlier and so it was always the workplace culture, and b) the engineers and staff at the likes of Tesla & SpaceX have more limited options in terms of jobs elsewhere. A huge amount of the staff at Twitter could quite easily get jobs elsewhere with comparable working conditions/salary to Twitter pre-Musk and have skills which are far more easily transferrable to another company.



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