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Are people getting tired of all the billionaires and their billionairing?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,569 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how




  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I’m not sure that you understand what a political lobbyist does.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Do they lobby for political causes?

    Feeny buys influence. He doesn't (just) give to charity.

    Whats your angle Andrew?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    What do you think of Gates? Do you like him? Do you dislike him? Is he unfairly vilified?

    Does his close friendship with Jeffrey Epstein not matter because there's 'no evidence he did anything wrong'?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Yes, lobbyists lobby for causes. That's their job. Feeney isn't a lobbyist. Here's what lobbying looks like;

    You're right, Feeney doesn't just give to charity. Here's what he did in Ireland, just one of the countries where he was busy with philanthropy;

    AP helped to fund the Irish Government's research funding mechanism, the Programme for Research in Third Level Institutions (aka PRTLI), through its five cycles from 1998 to around 2018.[20]

    AP invested over $1 billion in third-level education in Ireland, funding research facilities at the University of Limerick and Dublin City University as well as a library and sports facility at Trinity College Dublin.[21] AP's grants in Ireland have been credited by some for stimulating the Irish economy in the 1990s.[22]

    In 2005 it funded the short-lived Centre for Public Inquiry.[23]

    In 2009, AP indicated that it would grant €80 million in Ireland in 2009 to children, elderly and human rights projects.[24] In 2011, AP awarded a €1.2 million grant to Barnardo's, one of Ireland's best-known children's charities.[25]

    In 2004–13, AP provided $11.5m and political advice to the Gay and Lesbian Equality Network and three other Irish gay-rights groups.[26][27][28] 

    As of 2014, a total of $226 million in Atlantic grants have leveraged $1.3 billion of government money to the Irish university system.[29]


    My 'angle' is that I don't like to see people talking absolute sh1te in discussions like this.

    What I think of Gates is that I think he'd be very interested to hear @eskimohunt clarify his allegation that Gates pocketed charity funds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,569 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    At the very least, Elon Musk has singlehandedly blown up any idea that just because someone is wealthy, they should be listened to.

    Incredible to watch it fall to pieces in literal days after he took over. Stunning, and depressing.

    What's even more depressing is so many of his supporters are those who support extreme ideals such as Trumpism, Brexit etc and categorically, absolutely resisting any meaningful action in moving away from fossil fuels.

    Future historians, or whatever is left of them, will read about this period in history and cringe at the decisions of so many to act against their own best interests. We, as a society, will look so primitive to them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,488 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    It’s early days, don’t judge him on Twitter yet. He may well be doing exactly what needs to be done, culling a bloated, overpaid workforce with the focus now on efficiency and income generation for the company.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,569 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I don't buy it.

    Nothing about how the transition of Twitter from where it was to today looks planned, insightful or logical.

    The fiasco of 'comedy is back to stop-being-mean-to-me, telling people to vote Republican, firing people who showed him how he was wrong on Twitter, firing people and then asking them to come back, telling people to sign up to slave labour and whatever the hell is going on now with forcing people to come back to the office and then locking everyone out of the office.

    Sure Twitter may survive, but if it does, it will be in spite of him rather than because of him. He's also done massive damage to the Tesla brand.

    This particular Billionaire lives his life like people and companies are his playthings to acquire and treat as he wishes, he's done more to advance the argument against allowing individuals to accumulate such massive wealth than anyone else before him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,488 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    From reading reports around the deal a few weeks ago, Twitter was haemorrhaging money, was over staffed and was struggling to generate income. We can only assume that any investors in the deal would require Musk to address all those issues. The approach appears scatter gun, but it’s highly probable that he will very quickly trim staff/costs significantly in a very short time period, then be in a position to rebuild.

    Time will tell whether we look back on this as the loony antics of a manchild, or a master stroke to take a cleaver to the business and then turn it into a profitable online powerhouse.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,569 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    He could have had the same result without it appearing like he had no idea what was going on.

    I didn't even mention the $8 debacle and the impact fake accounts had on massive businesses.

    Twitter may well survive, it likely will in some form. It most definitely will not be because of any of Musk's ingenuity that he has shown to this point. Maybe if he does replace himself as CEO sooner rather than later then that might happen without much more impact, but if it does, it will only reinforce the point of how clueless he has been.

    FFS, if he wanted to create a Twitter 2.0 powerhouse, why spend 44B on anything that already exists. This is literally a Simpsons episode in real life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,488 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Seriously?

    Brand recognition, Twitter has 240m users, it’s like asking why can’t companies just reproduce a phone similar to Apple, and make it as successful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    To answer that: a billionaire/their company cornered the state of the art manufacturers in various sectors (glass screens, high tolerance metal frames, bleeding edge TMSC processors, etc.), so even if Bill Gates /$MSFT wanted to Zune his way into the phone market (which they very much attempted to), they could not compete in any meaningful way even absent the obvious iOS/AppStore-walled-garden advantage, they simply could not engineer a phone that outperformed theirs for a marketable cost because the production and technological capacity just isn't available most places. Every no-name android competitor was rushed into the market by race to the bottom tactics to secure the scraps of market share apple didn't want nor have, but all of them got pushed out by Samsung etc., who had the incumbent advantage of in-house engineering for their own manufacturing.

    $APPL is interesting because they use their immense capital advantage to make their products seem as technologically sophisticated as possible, making it hard both to counterfeit and for other competitors to shine against them.

    $MSFT meanwhile uses their capital to slather itself around by eating into its own costs usually, like on the Zune/Windows Phones and especially xbox consoles -- the hardware AFAIK is still something they take a net loss on, vs. the game titles. Naturally, that makes it hard for new competitors in the games console businesses to enter the market, who cannot eat the cost of hardware development (closest have been several attempts by Steam/privately-held Valve - most of them have flopped).



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,569 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    44,000,000,000

    For brand recognition? And to seriously impact Tesla's brand in the process? (And similar collateral damage for companies like Eli Lily)

    2 years ago the same people cheering Musk now were telling us Trump could easily set up a platform to compete with Twitter, now they're telling us he needed to spend more than the individual GDP of over 120 countries to do this.

    This thread is about the actions of Billionaires, Musk's actions have shown a light on their foolishness and unfair influence like no one person before in any of our lifetimes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,488 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Brand recognition as the reason why he didn’t just start another company offering the same service, the sector already has a dominant brand, Twitter.

    Whether that brand is worth 44B, well that’s a different matter, time will tell. If it tanks as you expect, then the answer will be a resounding No, if he manages to make Twitter profitable, then in the years to come the answer may well be Yes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,569 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,230 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    It's both incredible, and incredibly depressing, how far some will go to defend those that wouldn't even wash their arse before letting them lick it...

    I think it's this that I am more tried of than billionaires billionairing to be honest. It's immensely dull reading circle jerk tripe that's spouted about these bozos by sycophantic arse lickers who pull the stomach out of themselves hero worshipping people who wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

    As for Musk, and I've said this numerous times, he was simply a guy who was in the right place at the right time and also had the cushion of wealth to begin with, which goes a long, LONG, way to being able to take a punt on projects and schemes that might not go one's way. The way some of a certain cohort go on about this guy, you'd think he was some sort of renaissance man genius who got to where he is because of his super brain. When the reality is a vastly different landscape.

    As we've seen recently, his decisions leave a lot to be desired and one suspects that that he's high on the smell of his own farts at this point.

    And as you say, all Bezos did was set up an online bookstore, which he wasn't the first to do by any stretch of the imagination.

    In short, these people got lucky and in that respect fair play to them. But where that fair play nod ends is in their subsequent actions like paying staff subsistence wages while they, themselves, get sweetheart tax breaks, or flitting away obscene amounts of money on a vanity purchase and then firing 1000's of people who actually need to work in order to live.

    That kind of crap doesn't deserve any respect at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,202 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Money has never and will never buy class.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,488 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    You wouldn’t enjoy spending money if you had loads of it? You don’t come across at all bitter Tony, if I had billions I wouldn’t give a damn what anyone else thought either, it might surprise you that no one really cares what you yourself spend your money on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,230 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Do you know what a non sequitur is. Cos you just made one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,488 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I admit my Latin isn’t what it used to be since my first year in secondary school, so I had to look that one up.

    Who cares if Musk or anyone else wants to blow their billions on vanity projects, it’s their money. Musk might well take a loss making company and turn it around, it’s too early to tell. But saying that billionaires made their money simply because they were lucky is bollox. You seem bitter because people admire people who have been extremely successful and discount both their talent, drive and a relentless will to succeed. Personally I think their success is to be admired, though I wouldn’t necessarily admire them as human beings.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,230 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Again...gloriously missing the point.

    It's not the fact that Musk spunked away 44 billion on a mere plaything that's at issue. It's the fact that he subsequently fired tons of people who actually need jobs to live that's the problem. That kind of action isn't worthy of any respect in any way, shape, or form.

    Do you get it yet?

    As to luck, that had a HUGE part to play in the story of their success. If you cannot see that, it's simply because you are refusing to at this point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,488 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Just realised you are the guy who likes to use “spunked”, it’s a strange word to use in that context, but hey ho.

    He seems to be trying to turn around a loss making company with a hugely overpopulated workforce, not uncommon after a buyout of loss making businesses. Time will tell if he succeeds.

    No doubt luck plays a part, but you create your own luck by having the right product at the right time and knowing how to make it work. Maybe you are bitter because you aren’t lucky and that’s your gripe. Either way, they can’t be the only lucky people in the world, so there is more to it than that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,230 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    @Dav010

    Just realised you are the guy who likes to use “spunked”, it’s creepy, but hey ho.

    WTF are talking about. 🙄

    but you create your own luck

    Nobody "creates" luck. It's something that happens to you outside of your own action. That's what makes it fortunate or unfortunate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Having a family fortune to fall back on seems to be a handy way to create your own luck too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,488 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Only if you think having well off parents guarantees success.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    There's no guarantees, but it's a pretty good indicator for the kind of luck you mentioned.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,488 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Only if you think wealthy parents make billionaire offspring.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    There’s a fairly good connection between wealthy parents and wealthy children, just ICYMI.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,230 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Exactly.

    It's far easier to become richer, when you're already rich.

    Can't believe this has to pointed out to some people.



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