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So "X" - nothing to see here. Elon's in control - Part XXX **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭kerplun k


    I think at this point, no matter which way you look at it, it’s pretty conclusive that this has been a massive f**K up from Musk. You can debate Musks characteristics until the cows come home, but for me, there's no denying that this has been a complete cluster**k that will no doubt tarnish his legacy. He'll be lucky to recover 1/4 of what he's spent on it.

    Post edited by kerplun k on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,530 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    in less than two hours since trading opened this morning, tesla's share price has fallen 2.5%.



  • Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Burty330


    Balenciaga used their own twitter page to promote themselves. Since its a free platform they were not paying Twitter to advertisers their products. The same applies to Audi and VW. Why buy ad space when you can create a page for free?

    Here's where Twitter gets its ad revenue from. Who on that list has pulled out?





  • Registered Users Posts: 18,564 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I do not know where you get thia outrage, most on here ayte giving an analysis of why what Musk is doing will fail and cost him billions.

    It purely business analysis and looking at the decisions he is making and why they are failing.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A complete shltshow, but I really think people overplay how important the money is when you have 100bn+ left even if it turns to zero. Bruised ego aside, I'd rather be him and lose 99.99% of my net worth, than be me and lose 10k.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,049 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    After the scope of the layoffs to date, and seeing that twitter the platform is largely working as is - perhaps the level of staffing at twitter was not actually necessary.

    Plenty of stories from people in industry about how working for twitter was a pisstake, you could go months without doing anything of value



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It's been on a pretty steep downward trend for the last few months , running quite a bit ahead of the general stock slump - S&P 500 is down about 7% in the last 3 months , Tesla is down over 40% in the same period.

    It's down 9% this week alone.

    Stock holders are not happy with Musk in general these days,



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,138 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The coding is frozen, it is basically running on autopilot.

    Now the problem is when things need to changed, upgraded or a problem happens. Because from what I have being reading, a lot of the senior engineers didn't react too well to "click here or else" and have jumped ship.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Balenciaga closed their account entirely

    And from your list - Nestle who were the largest advertisers have been advised by their Ad agency to stop using Twitter as it's considered "High Risk" , this after they had already drastically reduced their ad spend with twitter over the Summer.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    From experience and extrapolation, there's a remarkable number of systems, websites and general software out there that function - but which are incredibly brittle, due to the fact the one guy who wrote the thing, left the company aeons ago, and now nobody's quite sure how it works. Or they were over-engineered to a degree that they're impossible to change, except around the margins and with some "developer magic". All that's probably survivable if you're some small company with a modest turnaround - but yeah; Twitter? As you say, the moment something needs to change the (apparent) brain-drain is going to cause problems. Can't ask the new guy with 5 months under their belt and no senior devs to pick brains with, to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

    Unless they have top-notch documentation. And even then: aside from the fact software engineers hate writing documentation, there's just that irreplaceable X Factor of a group of experienced professionals; those who know the kinks, the edge-cases and "feel" of a tech-stack that make development easier. If these reports are true, and the numbers vacating the engineering teams are real - that's a huge problem not easily fixed. There are some things you can't throw money at. Musk is running a Software company and fúcking over his Developers; that's not smart.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,530 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Yeah..

    It's like saying "I had my car serviced a few weeks ago and it's still running fine - I'll never need to service it again"

    Something will break, It always does.

    And given the media attention every hacker on the planet will fancy having a go off the Twitter back-end and without the Engineers and architects to plug holes and apply patches and fixes etc. they will get in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Those people will find work in a day if they're desperate, the hard part is finding a job you are motivated by and obviously with a high salary and works with your personal life. But there will always be a demand for developers even mid recession.



  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭one armed dwarf


    Well it's not like they were constantly shovelling coal into the fire. But if updates need to be performed, sweeping changes which usher in the features Elon needs to complete this pivot, it will be immensely more difficult to asses the side effects of those changes with such a massive brain drain. Side effects that can break existing functionality

    You need the people who know how the system works to evolve and iterate the platform. What's happening here is twitter probably won't fall over overnight, but at the very least it will lose an immense amount of velocity which will smother whatever innovations Elon has in mind here.

    That's just when it comes to feature development. But even maintaining a codebase requires work to be performed from time to time, if a module has a security flaw and needs to be updated. New twitter is going to at the very least be facing some profound struggles, everything will move much more slowly



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,631 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    I mean you think there's no proof that what Musk has done hasn't been fully thought out in advance. What's the point in me actually debating that? At some point the most simple explanation is the correct one and its blindingly obvious he thought absolutely none of this through.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well there is a non-zero chance he is spite-killing the platform because he was forced to buy. The man has clearly lost the rationality we'd expect from anyone in a position he's in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,325 ✭✭✭Man Vs ManUre


    The minions are keeping Twitter going, these little yellow guys do all the hardcore graft.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Not out of spite, but for practical reasons: his spending on it didn't end with those 44 billions, it also costs money to keep the lights on. So it's either dim the lights to the bare minimum, or shut it down altogether.



  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Musk is being very rational and if you don't see if you're part of the problem.

    He has just got rid of probably 60-70% of the staff...and the thing still works. In other words 60-70% of the staff were completely surplus to requirements.

    No-one is irreplaceable....in fact the uncomfortable truth is if YOU were fired from your job tomorrow, either the company would get by just fine without you or the guy they get to replace you would do it better, due to to fresh eyes and higher motivation.

    When he turns Twitter into a massive catch all platform (X) worth $250 billion, and refloats it on the stock market in a few years, his $44bn purchase will look like the bargain of the century.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,437 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    The guy waving the yellow flag at the bike is the best bit.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,437 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    It still works today. tomorrow may be a different story.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't doubt that's possible, and I follow enough programming subreddits and discords to know what people say about working there. But the whole thing is all over the place with the blue ticks etc. I don't see how anyone is part of any "problem".

    My experience using Twitter since he took over is the exact same as it was. Same journalists and tech people posting as they were before.

    It's very disappointing to me personally as I just started a software engineering post-grad and will finish that in a market full of ex-Twitter/Meta etc. developers. Pretty terrible for my future overall but I guess that's the era of free money coming to an end.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Yeah.. It's definitely everyone else and not Musk.

    Musks "Project X" is basically trying to make Twitter into WeChat so it's not exactly some wild innovation.

    WeChat is Twitter, Facebook , Uber , Revolut, Just Eat and Venmo all rolled into one.

    The Problem is is that WeChat only works because it's in China and all it's potential competitors are banned or heavily restricted.

    WeChat is owned by TenCent who have cash to burn by the boat load - They made $35B in profit last year and have been making that kind of money for a decade or more.

    WeChat simply doesn't exist outside of that Chinese Government controlled walled Garden.

    So if TenCent with all their money can't even make the tiniest impact outside of China , Twitter haven't a hope.

    Project X is DOA.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭dasdog


    I would expect the remaining 30% will start to burn out quite quickly and employees will start to quit. They must be outsourcing jobs. You cannot sustain a global platform with so few personnel. I'm sure there was fat that could be trimmed but what he is doing seems insane.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    What he's done is akin to being told by your doctor that you need to lose 20kgs and instead of going on a diet and losing that weight over the next few months in a healthy and controlled manner, you chop off both your legs in the car park.

    Sure , you've lost the 20kgs but now what???



  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭one armed dwarf


    But requirements change. Like right now, the requirements are that something needs done about the fact that twitter is hemorrhaging money from fleeing advertisers and Elon Musk is here to fix all that, with his rethought twitter (whatever form it takes). By his own admission it's not possible for twitter to just thread water because of this, and all his plans so far involve developing new features. Massively ambitious features to turn it into a sort of WeChat thing, based on reports. That the current thing hasn't toppled over overnight does not guarantee that it's current urgent requirements are going to be met. Whatever merit there is to Musk's plan, that is the plan and it needs engineers with knowledge of how to build on what already exists.

    Somebody needs to implement the next version of Twitter, but it hasn't been implemented yet. If you just lost a bunch of people who understand how the whole thing operates, why would you not expect that to impact future refurbishment efforts, or maintenance of code quality or its resilience to outside threats?

    These are factors which operate on a longer scale than a mere week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭OscarMIlde


    Apparently he only has an undergraduate degree in Economics from the Wharton School (where Trump got his degree if you want an indication of the level of rigour involved).

    There have been a few lawsuits against Musk in the past and one thing brought up in them is that his much trumpeted degree in Physics doesn't exist. He enrolled in a degree and then dropped out. His subsequent degree in economics was to regularise his VISA status as he was in America on condition of being a student.

    Stafford have also denied that he was ever registered as a PhD student there despite his claims he began one and left immediately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    You won't see the impact of the layoffs for a year. Easy to maintain business as usual but when higher traffic or new features or outtage events occur, it will start to unravel. Supporting is a lot easier than developing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭joseywhales




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭Panrich


    Exactly this. Documentation is all fine and dandy but it doesn't cover all the bases no matter how detailed it is. As an example, I could write a manual on how to ride a bike but without the experience (often painful), it won't teach anyone to replace me as the resident bike rider.



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